Bespoke furniture - deposit refund

redhotbrit

Hi, I wonder if anyone on here can help or have had experience of this. My mum who is 83 ordered a bespoke bed through a UK based company. The salesman asked her if she wanted to put down a deposit, and paid £1000 - the bed was £2,500. 10 days later she cancelled the order at the bank and then rang them to tell them. They told her initially on the phone she could have her money back but then contacted her and advised not. The website and paperwork do say no refund for bespoke items in most cases. It doesn't go into detail. And there is no information on cooling off periods either. She paid direct debit as well.

I have looked at all the consumer rights info but is mind blowing. Just wanted to check if anyone else has had experience and whether they managed to get some or all of their deposit back?

DoaM

In what way was the bed bespoke?

The cooling off period for contracts formed in the customer's home is statutory, but I can't remember if it is still 7 days or if it changed to 14 days. I also can't remember if it is still possible to sign a contract that waives this right, to allow the provider to start the order immediately.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1816/contents/made

That was the relevant legislation, but I'm not sure if any of that was updated and superseded by the Consumer Rights Act 2015. The linked legislation defines 7 days.

unholyangel

DoaM wrote: »

In what way was the bed bespoke?

The cooling off period for contracts formed in the customer's home is statutory, but I can't remember if it is still 7 days or if it changed to 14 days. I also can't remember if it is still possible to sign a contract that waives this right, to allow the provider to start the order immediately.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1816/contents/made

That was the relevant legislation, but I'm not sure if any of that was updated and superseded by the Consumer Rights Act 2015. The linked legislation defines 7 days.

They were superseded but by the CCRs. 14 days to notify them of your intent to cancel (providing the retailer provides info on the right to cancel). No right to cancel where the goods are made to the consumers specifications (rather than the consumer choosing from a range of specifications set by the retailer) and if the contract is for services rather than goods, they shouldn't begin provision of the service until the 14 days is up - unless the consumer makes an express request in a durable medium that the work begin early. In the latter circumstances, you can still cancel - you'd just be liable for the provision of services within the cancellation period.

DoaM

Thanks ... so we need OP to come back and answer the Bespoke question.

Cambie

The exemption in ICAC's does refer to goods made to the consumer's specifications but this is not defined in the Regs. You have to go to the enacting EU directive 2011/83/EU Article 2 (4) which provides the following definition:

"goods made to the consumer's specifications means non-prefabricated goods made on the basis of an individual choice of or decision by the consumer.

So if the off-premises contact is for prefabricated goods then no exemption from cancellation rights.

unholyangel

Cambie wrote: »

The exemption in ICAC's does refer to goods made to the consumer's specifications but this is not defined in the Regs. You have to go to the enacting EU directive 2011/83/EU Article 2 (4) which provides the following definition:

"goods made to the consumer's specifications means non-prefabricated goods made on the basis of an individual choice of or decision by the consumer.

So if the off-premises contact is for prefabricated goods then no exemption from cancellation rights.

As we said above - unless the goods are made to the consumers specification (rather than the retailers) then they are not exempt from the right to cancel.

The exemption does not centre on whether the goods are prefabricated or not, its whether they were made to the consumers specifications (or "individual choice" if you prefer). Although obviously prefabricated goods cannot be made to the consumers specification.

DoaM

Here's an example to make the above clearer ...

You order a table. You can select a choice of Yellow, Green or Blue as supplier options. This is not personalised therefore is NOT exempt from cancellation rights.

You order a table. Instead of Yellow, Green or Blue you choose Red and the supplier accepts the order. This one IS exempt because it has been personalised, as the supplier does not normally offer a Red table.

Cambie

Sorry unholyangel your wrong on this one. The exemption does centre on whether the goods are prefabricated or not. Did you look at the legislation I referred to? The guidance confuses things but it is always best to refer to the primary legislation.

wealdroam

Cambie wrote: »

Sorry unholyangel your wrong on this one. The exemption does centre on whether the goods are prefabricated or not. Did you look at the legislation I referred to? The guidance confuses things but it is always best to refer to the primary legislation.

Unfortunately the legislation you refer to is not UK legislation.

It is an instruction to the UK Government to incorporate stuff into the local legislation.

The UK have done that with The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

Regulation 28 lists those situations where the right to cancel is lost. Paragraph 1(b) states:

1(b) the supply of goods that are made to the consumer’s specifications or are clearly personalised;

Cambie

Wealdroam I know what legislation applies. The point I'm making is how do you define "consumer's specification" as it is not defined in the UK legislation?

When interpreting the legislation, in the absence of case law, courts will take the purposive approach of the legislation, whilst looking at the European legislation which is based on.

ICAC'S purpose is to protect consumers and the EU legislation specifically defines "consumer's specification" which is why the exemption only applies to non-prefabricated goods.

unholyangel

Cambie wrote: »

Sorry unholyangel your wrong on this one. The exemption does centre on whether the goods are prefabricated or not. Did you look at the legislation I referred to? The guidance confuses things but it is always best to refer to the primary legislation.

Yes I did read it, did you? You need to read the definition in its entirety - not just pick one part of it and ignore the rest.

Cambie wrote: »

"goods made to the consumer's specifications means non-prefabricated goods made on the basis of an individual choice of or decision by the consumer.

Goods made to the consumers specification means goods that are made up to the consumers individual choice.

The accompanying guidance for the CCRs specifically says that goods simply being made after a consumer has placed an order (ie non-prefabricated goods) will not make them bespoke for the purpose of the CCRs.

14. An item made up following a consumer order does not necessarily make it
a bespoke item which is exempt from cancellation rights. An item, for example
a sofa or computer, can be assembled following an order but the component
parts may be made up of parts offered from a standard range. So, for
instance, a sofa where the consumer chooses a fabric and colour from a
range on offer will not be bespoke for the purposes of these Regulations.
However, if the consumer asks the trader to source a special finish and which
is not in the range generally offered by the trader, that is likely to be a
bespoke item.