Bespoke furniture - deposit refund

unholyangel

Cambie wrote: »

Unholyangel - your missing the point in respect to the courts intetpretation of consumer's specification in the absence of case law. I haven't just made this up, courts will take into account the purposive approach of the legalisation in conjuction with the enacting legislation when arriving at their decision. You are right in respect of the EU setting the minimum standards, but your interpretation is reducing consumer protection and this from consumer protection piece of legislation!

I can't stress this enough the only type of goods where the cancellation exemption applies are non-prefabricated ones. ( BTW The legislation talks about other types of goods too such as digital content) As i said above examples of non-prefabricated goods are lengths of wood - applying the second part of the definition "made on the basis of an individual choice or decision" would be cutting or painting it.

How is my interpretation reducing consumer rights when you're saying non-prefabricated goods are exempt from the right to cancel and I'm saying only some non-prefabricated goods are exempt but the rest have full cancellation rights?

As I have said, of course prefabricated goods cannot be exempt because its impossible for them to be made to the consumers specifications if they're prefabricated, and its being made to the consumers specification thats the important part - not whether the goods are made to order or not. Why should a consumer lose their cancellation rights just because a trader chooses not to keep a stock of finished products?

Cambie

FYI cancellation rights apply to virtually all off-premise contacts and this includes double glazing, kitchens, made to measure beds etc.

Fosterdog

Do we actually know that the OP was a distance or off-premesis sale? I've just reread it and at no point does it state that this is the case. It mentions looking at the website cancellation terms after cancelling with the bank, and again mentions a phone call to cancel it also mentions a salesman but doesn't state whether the salesman was in a showroom i.e. on premises, on a web live chat, on the phone or in the customers home.

So in this case it may actually be a of change of mind from an in store purchase which they don't have to allow cancellation regardless of whether it was bespoke or not.

unholyangel

Cambie wrote: »

FYI cancellation rights apply to virtually all off-premise contacts and this includes double glazing, kitchens, made to measure beds etc.

I just have one more question....do you realise you're contradicting yourself? All of the goods you have named above are non-prefabricated goods (which - according to your previous posts - are exempt from the right to cancel).

unholyangel

Fosterdog wrote: »

Do we actually know that the OP was a distance or off-premesis sale? I've just reread it and at no point does it state that this is the case. It mentions looking at the website cancellation terms after cancelling with the bank, and again mentions a phone call to cancel it also mentions a salesman but doesn't state whether the salesman was in a showroom i.e. on premises, on a web live chat, on the phone or in the customers home.

So in this case it may actually be a of change of mind from an in store purchase which they don't have to allow cancellation regardless of whether it was bespoke or not.

No they didn't specify - initial posts mentioned would have to wait on OP returning but its been almost 2 weeks and no new updates from OP.

Typically though these types of products will be sold in a manner similar to double glazing firms - phone call/internet contact to arrange appointment then salesman comes to your home, measures up, shows you samples etc and then becomes very reluctant to leave - sometimes even phoning the office/their boss to authorise a "special" discount if you sign today.

Cambie

Unholyangel - sorry but you're not right. All the goods I've listed are prefabricated which means they must supply cancellation rights to off-premise sales.

Double glazed units are made at the factory - prefabricated
Bespoke/ordinary kitchens are made at the factory or erected at home -prefabricated
made to measure beds are prefabricated at the factory.

Non-prefabricated = lengths of wood, pipe, steel etc

Hope this helps

DoaM

But ... they are NON-prefabricated at the time of placing an order (which is the important bit in respect of cancellation rights and exemptions therefrom). The supplier wouldn't normally start making up the goods (fabricating) until AFTER the order has been placed.

Cambie

It's a fact that double glazed units are prefabricated before being installed. Likewise with made to measure beds and furniture, bespoke kitchens - although most kitchens assembled and adapted on site to fit the space.

None of the above meet the exemption in ICAC's reg 28 (1)(b).

DoaM

I had thought of a comprehensive response, but I know it would be pointless.

So my only reply now is - yeah, whatever.

wealdroam

Cambie wrote: »

Double glazed units are made at the factory - prefabricated
Bespoke/ordinary kitchens are made at the factory or erected at home -prefabricated
made to measure beds are prefabricated at the factory.

Non-prefabricated = lengths of wood, pipe, steel etc

Hope this helps

Sorry but I still cannot understand the difference between:

a) a piece of wood which is cut to a length that I, as a consumer, specify, which by your definition is 'non-prefabricated, and,

b) a window which is manufactured to fit an opening in the side of my house.

Can we re-phrase a) above to read: a piece of wood that is cut to fit that same window opening to form a window sill?

So we have two things 'manufactured' to fit an opening in the side of my house, which, by your definition, one is prefabricated and one is not.

Or does it actually depend on where that piece of wood is cut?
If it is cut off-site, then it is prefabricated, but if it is cut on-site it is non-prefabricated?

How strange.