Bespoke furniture - deposit refund

unholyangel

In fact, even the EU legislation guidance says this:

'Goods made to the consumer’s specifications' are defined in Article 2 of the Directive as
'non- prefabricated goods made on the basis of an individual choice of or decision by the
consumer'. Recital 49 of the Directive refers to 'tailor-made curtains' as an example of goods
made to the consumer’s specifications or which are clearly personalised.
Since this rule is an exception from the Directive's more general rule giving consumers the
right of withdrawal from distance/off-premises contracts, it should be interpreted narrowly.

So, this exception should cover, for example:
 goods, for which the consumer has provided specifications, such as measurements
for furniture or the size of a fabric;
 goods, for which the consumer has requested specific personalised features, such
as a particular design for a car that is made to order or a specific component for
a computer, which has to be individually procured for that particular order and
which was not part of the trader's general offer to the public;
 address labels with the consumer's contact information or T-shirts with a
personalised print.

Specification/ personalisation in this context should be taken to mean that the goods are, in
principle, unique and produced according to the individual wishes and requirements stated by
the consumer and agreed with the trader.

In contrast, where the consumer simply make up the goods by picking from the standard (preset)
options provided by the trader, such as colour or additional equipment in a car, or makes
up a set of furniture on the basis of standard elements, it should not be possible to speak of
either 'specification' or 'personalisation' in the narrow sense of this provision.

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/consumer-marketing/files/crd_guidance_en.pdf

ETA: As I have said, it does not focus on whether the goods are prefabricated or not - and obviously its only going to apply to non-prefabricated goods because its impossible for prefabricated goods to be made to the consumers specifications!

wealdroam

Cambie wrote: »

The point I'm making is how do you define "consumer's specification" as it is not defined in the UK legislation?

To use Doam's example above...

If the manufacturer says "you can have a yellow, green or blue table" then that is clearly the manufacturer's specification.

If the consumer says "I would like a red table" clearly that is the consumer's specification of the table he wants.

I'm not sure how that fits with your "non-prefabricated goods" definition though.

Cambie

Unholyangel - the exemption specifies the type of goods, non-prefabricated, where the exemption applies. Non-prefabricated goods are goods such as lengths of wood cut to size by the retailer - eg distance cpntracts where Wickes are cutting wood or lengths of pipe to size.

Also the EU guidance says at the very top that it's guidance only a court can decide. As i said earlier the EU guidance only confuses the matter. A court making a decision will not refer to it - it will only look at the legislation, case law and the purposive approach of the legislation.

Remember we're talking about a piece of legislation designed to allow people who enter into contracts in their own homes the right to cancel - which makes sense.

BTW I enforce this legislation I don't come here from an uninformed position. I'm only trying to educate the members who get conned into believing their kitchen or double glazing contacts signed at home cannot be cancelled.

LilElvis

Cambie wrote: »

Unholyangel - the exemption specifies the type of goods, non-prefabricated, where the exemption applies. Non-prefabricated goods are goods such as lengths of wood cut to size by the retailer - eg distance cpntracts where Wickes are cutting wood or lengths of pipe to size.

Also the EU guidance says at the very top that it's guidance only a court can decide. As i said earlier the EU guidance only confuses the matter. A court making a decision will not refer to it - it will only look at the legislation, case law and the purposive approach of the legislation.

Remember we're talking about a piece of legislation designed to allow people who enter into contracts in their own homes the right to cancel - which makes sense.

BTW I enforce this legislation I don't come here from an uninformed position. I'm only trying to educate the members who get conned into believing their kitchen or double glazing contacts signed at home cannot be cancelled.

In what capacity do you enforce this legislation?

Why not then further "educate" us that it is also possible for a customer to waive their rights to a cooling off period?

Rainbowgirl84

Cambie wrote: »

Unholyangel - the exemption specifies the type of goods, non-prefabricated, where the exemption applies. Non-prefabricated goods are goods such as lengths of wood cut to size by the retailer - eg distance cpntracts where Wickes are cutting wood or lengths of pipe to size.

Also the EU guidance says at the very top that it's guidance only a court can decide. As i said earlier the EU guidance only confuses the matter. A court making a decision will not refer to it - it will only look at the legislation, case law and the purposive approach of the legislation.

Remember we're talking about a piece of legislation designed to allow people who enter into contracts in their own homes the right to cancel - which makes sense.

BTW I enforce this legislation I don't come here from an uninformed position. I'm only trying to educate the members who get conned into believing their kitchen or double glazing contacts signed at home cannot be cancelled.

You are choosing to ignore the very simple example given. There are circumstances where distant contracts have no statutory right of cancellation

Fosterdog

Cambie wrote: »

BTW I enforce this legislation I don't come here from an uninformed position. I'm only trying to educate the members who get conned into believing their kitchen or double glazing contacts signed at home cannot be cancelled.

Unless you are a judge I can't see how you can possibly enforce this legislation. Even trading standards can't do that, they can investigate and issue proceedings against companies but it is ultimately a judge who makes the decision.

unholyangel

Cambie wrote: »

BTW I enforce this legislation I don't come here from an uninformed position. I'm only trying to educate the members who get conned into believing their kitchen or double glazing contacts signed at home cannot be cancelled.

Enforcing is a world away from interpreting. A policeman does not suddenly acquire a understanding of the law just because he's placed in charge of enforcing it.

Theres never any guarantees with law admittedly - solicitors & judges get interpretations wrong every day. Theres always going to be someone in the wrong when you have 2 parties debating opposite viewpoints against one another.

But as I said above, you need to read the definition in its entirety. If it solely exempted goods that were non-prefabricated, there would be no need for any of the words that appear after "non-prefabricated goods". If they mean to exempt goods where that are made up following a consumers order to whatever available options the consumer choose from, there would be no need for the word "individual" before choices & decisions. Even if they held your interpretation as correct, theres always the argument that UK lawmakers intended a more generous application given earlier drafts use the EU definitions wording and latter drafts do not. EU directives are about laying down a minimum level of protection offered, not a maximum. Else you would have had retailers claiming they're only liable for 2 years under the "secret EU rule".

Cambie

Unholyangel - your missing the point in respect to the courts intetpretation of consumer's specification in the absence of case law. I haven't just made this up, courts will take into account the purposive approach of the legalisation in conjuction with the enacting legislation when arriving at their decision. You are right in respect of the EU setting the minimum standards, but your interpretation is reducing consumer protection and this from consumer protection piece of legislation!

I can't stress this enough the only type of goods where the cancellation exemption applies are non-prefabricated ones. ( BTW The legislation talks about other types of goods too such as digital content) As i said above examples of non-prefabricated goods are lengths of wood - applying the second part of the definition "made on the basis of an individual choice or decision" would be cutting or painting it.

In respect of waiving your rights you can't really. What happens is that in cases of emergency eg plumbing repair cancellation rights don't apply. However cancellation rights do apply when a plumber notices a non-urgent repair. If you want a job to start away eg the supply and fitting of a kitchen then there are certain conditions and information which must be supplied before the contract starts - but you still have cancellation rights.

Fosterdog - I think I know what you mean by your wrong. Enforcement agencies enforce the legislation - the courts interpret it. Which is why were having this debate - no case law!

All the above refers to off-premise contracts

Cambie

Edit my last sentence above: All the applies to distance and off-premise contacts.

Cambie

Edit my last sentence above: All the above applies to distance and off-premise contacts.