Electric cars

System

IanMSpencer wrote: »

How recoverable are the materials in the battery, can they be regenerated and re-manufactured, or are we just creating a massive landfill issue 10 years down the line.
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Effectively 100% recoverable. The current problem is though that the cost of recycling the lithium is far more than just digging more out of the ground so whilst we can we don't. Hopefully that shortsightedness doesn't continue for long and I suspect it won't given how more aware we are in 2017 than we were in 1970 of how stupid not doing something because of cost can be.

Stageshoot

jeradon wrote: »

To me, electric cars are great for short trips only.

Did 41k miles in my EV this last 12 months, tramping up and down the M1 to work in London from Notts, and for all other trips as well.

Thought the same as you when we bought our first EV (Will Do For Local Journeys Use the Volvo V40 for the long stuff).

I can tell you that very quickly changed when we saw the savings and the fact it did not inconvenience our driving style,

Quickly sold our V$0 and got another EV.

Currently have a 2016 BMW i3 with the smaller battery which does 100 miles on a charge, and a Long Range Renault Zoe ZE40 that does 200 on a charge, we now use that for our work trips to London and back, No stops and less hassle than a petrol/diesel

Savings wise our Cost Per Mile over the 41k miles is currently about 1.4p per mile so about a tenth of traditional motoring.

This does not take into account savings like no Congestion Charge (Saves £11.50 a day) and Free Parking in Central London (Saves £40 a day)

I would recommend you try it for local driving be expect you would soon find it takes over your main motoring duties.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

Stageshoot wrote: »

Did 41k miles in my EV this last 12 months, tramping up and down the M1 to work in London from Notts, and for all other trips as well.

Thought the same as you when we bought our first EV (Will Do For Local Journeys Use the Volvo V40 for the long stuff).

I can tell you that very quickly changed when we saw the savings and the fact it did not inconvenience our driving style,

Quickly sold our V$0 and got another EV.

Currently have a 2016 BMW i3 with the smaller battery which does 100 miles on a charge, and a Long Range Renault Zoe ZE40 that does 200 on a charge, we now use that for our work trips to London and back, No stops and less hassle than a petrol/diesel

Savings wise our Cost Per Mile over the 41k miles is currently about 1.4p per mile so about a tenth of traditional motoring.

This does not take into account savings like no Congestion Charge (Saves £11.50 a day) and Free Parking in Central London (Saves £40 a day)

I would recommend you try it for local driving be expect you would soon find it takes over your main motoring duties.

Do you find the EV more or less enjoyable to drive? What are the pluses and minuses (e.g. winter driving issues?). Given that there is little about car buying that is logical (though there is lots of post-purchase justification) I'd be interested in what you experienced. Clearly, a BMW purchase is not about money saving per se but having a premium experience to a certain extent.

AnotherJoe

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

You do both of those things, otherwise your very expensive motor could end up overheating, and if you don't bother to check/replace hoses and belts, what's going to drive the alternator and A/C compressor and prevent all that coolant you've just topped up falling straight through any holes that haven't been noticed?


Also, an IC (not IEC) engine does not have anywhere near 2000 moving parts - if you believe that, go and buy an old engine and take it apart, and come back when you've counted all the parts that move. I'll give you a clue - it won't take long.


If you mean how many moving parts are in a whole vehicle powered by an IC engine, then there may be 2000 or many more - but many of those (window winders, pedals, knobs, switches, alternators, steering pumps, drivetrain, steering wheel, brake parts, hinges, etc, etc absolutely WILL be fitted to your EV as well, unless you'd intending to sit on the motor and steer with your feet on the ground.

IEC was a typo for “ICE”

An auto transmission alone will have an order of magnitude more moving parts than an EV, many hundreds, some seem to have close to 1000. That’s befure you get to the engine with multiple cylinders.

Add in the moving parts associated with each cylinder, plus elements that don’t exist in an EV such as s water pump etc and it’s not at all a stretch to get to 2000. I know the Tesla S transmission famously has 18 moving parts, there’s not even a reverse gear for example,

Gloomendoom

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Add in the moving parts associated with each cylinder, plus elements that don’t exist in an EV such as s water pump etc.

EVs do have water pumps. The Tesla Model S, for example, has at least two.

NigeWick

IanMSpencer wrote: »

Do you find the EV more or less enjoyable to drive? What are the pluses and minuses (e.g. winter driving issues?).

I've got a 30kWh Nissan Leaf Tekna. Got it early June and still get a bit of range anxiety when I see road works & diversion signs on a longer journey. AirCon or heater reduce range by a few miles, but not 10%. A plus is that the vehicle can be pre conditioned, preferably whilst still plugged in to the mains.

Driving is very comfortable and relaxing once one accepts the fact that to get decent range the max speed is between 60 & 65 mph. The Leaf is certainly not sporty but can be very quick from 0-30mph. The new Leaf will have a realistic 130-140 mile range at 70mph I believe. Overall I find electric to be more enjoyable to drive as I can virtually use just the one pedal by anticipating hazards. The slower cruising speed also means a lot less stress as normally the only things I overtake are lorries on dual carriageways.

I've got solar panels and so "fuel" is virtually free in sunny weather and I went with Ecotricity to get cheap recharging on our longer journies. £2.40 for 560 miles in August as I get 52 free charges up to April, and after that it will be 15p per kWh using the Electric Highway. I only do one 280 mile trip a year with others of either 135 or 115 miles meaning that I will be buying the 2018 Leaf. Two stops for charging each way once a year is perfectly acceptable to my bladder.

If one requires "sporty" the Jaguar Ipace will be out in 2018 and the quicker 60kWh Leaf by 2019. That said, the 40kWh Leaf is supposed to do 0-60mph in about 8 seconds which is plenty for me.

BeenThroughItAll

AnotherJoe wrote: »

IEC was a typo for “ICE”

An auto transmission alone will have an order of magnitude more moving parts than an EV, many hundreds, some seem to have close to 1000. That’s befure you get to the engine with multiple cylinders.

Add in the moving parts associated with each cylinder, plus elements that don’t exist in an EV such as s water pump etc and it’s not at all a stretch to get to 2000. I know the Tesla S transmission famously has 18 moving parts, there’s not even a reverse gear for example,

No.

Go and buy a second hand engine, and take it apart. Count the parts, then come back.

Categorically, because I have a V6 3.0 spread around my garage at the moment, I can tell you there are nothing like 2000 moving parts in an internal combustion engine. You are including other parts of the vehicle, many of which, as stated, will be shared across EVs.

My Renault Zoe had a water pump. It also had an alternator, air conditioning pump, windows, handles, locks, buttons, steering, suspension, brakes, etc, etc. Plenty of moving parts on it, thanks very much.

AdrianC

...and let's not forget that the brakes on an EV are more complex, because of regeneration. The suspension is heavier-duty, because of the battery weight, than an equivalent.

B'sides, what's least reliable on modern cars?

The electronics.

BeenThroughItAll

AdrianC wrote: »

...and let's not forget that the brakes on an EV are more complex, because of regeneration. The suspension is heavier-duty, because of the battery weight, than an equivalent.

B'sides, what's least reliable on modern cars?

The electronics.

Yep, and that's why my Zoe went back after a year and over 200 days in the workshop... the electronics. Utter turd, and Renault's customer service wasn't any better.

zeupater

AdrianC wrote: »

...and let's not forget that the brakes on an EV are more complex, because of regeneration. The suspension is heavier-duty, because of the battery weight, than an equivalent.

Hi

I'm pretty sure that the kerb-weight of a Tesla-3 approximates to something like a Mondeo (etc, etc) so there's little difference apart from weight distribution ...

Regeneration is a pretty well tried & tested technology with literally hundreds-of-billions of miles/cycles of use in volume production vehicles since early this century ... the braking system may be more complex, but effectively kinetic energy is converted & transferred to battery storage by using the drive-train in reverse, the motor becomes a generator, therefore the standard consumable item wear (brake pads/discs) is heavily reduced in standard driving conditions thus also reducing airborne particulate matter, especially in urban environments.

HTH
Z