Electric cars

mumstheword4

Zeupater- you are so right re. government inaction on environmental issues. It seems obvious that R&D in wind, tidal, solar has the capacity to reduce manufacturing costs to zero marginal cost.
Jo

Cash-Strapped.T32

Herzlos wrote: »

What about bobcats / mini diggers - why won't they work?
What about tele-loaders - why won't they work?

They already exist.
I get oodles of bumph from plant equipment manufacturers each week at work & am seeing a trend of more & more stuff going hybrid, or fully electric for the last few years.

A common theme is hybrid gear - that will use diesel while moving from site to site, and then go electric once it's in location & working. Or might use diesel to provide the hydraulics & electric motors for the driven wheels/tracks.

Given the service intervals for many of the engines such as those used in telehandlers are measured in hours rather than miles, it might end up being worth it even taking the fuelling issue out of the equation.

I saw some examples at the plant show in Leicester this year - mainly smaller units like minidiggers, but then again I wasn't on the lookout specifically for all-electric plant.

AdrianC

mumstheword4 wrote: »

I think Mitsubishi have withdrawn their MPG claims ( in TV ads, I have seen)

The official MPG figures are the only figures that can be quoted, legally. If they've "withdrawn" them, then that doesn't change the fact they're the official figures, achieved on the official test cycle - it just means they haven't mentioned economy in a particular ad. (I bet they have - the small print at the end/bottom)

to manufacture a new petrol/diesel car uses approx. 17 Tonnes CO2e

Does that include the distribution chain? If we're talking Far Eastern manufacture, that's non-negligible. Come to that, road/rail from the further reaches of Europe is non-negligible, too.

But where does that number comes from...?

If it is right, then let's take the average 2015 UK new car emissions figure of 120g/km CO2. That's 1.4 million km of use.

To use that vehicle with petrol/diesel will generate between 1 and 4 times that CO2 over its life.

So the average vehicle covers 350k-1.4m km in its life?

C'mon, let's be honest - you're plucking figures from the air, aren't you...

(unless the company making it has a completely new ethos & uses renewable-energy manufacturing techniques -one company does).

So which company is this who are taking advantage of some amazing technique that everybody else has somehow ignored? It's very simple - every single major manufacturer (not just motor industry - EVERY manufacturer) is doing everything they can to reduce their energy input costs and their emissions - because that makes financial sense.

zeupater

mumstheword4 wrote: »

Zeupater- you are so right re. government inaction on environmental issues. It seems obvious that R&D in wind, tidal, solar has the capacity to reduce manufacturing costs to zero marginal cost.
Jo

Hi

I take it that the above relates to the fingers & newts post? ... if so it's not only government inaction, it's also the short-sightedness of environmental movements ... could we build large scale tidal scheme in the Severn estuary to 'save the world' ? ... probably not as it might temporarily disturb some nesting birds or a the migration plans of a slug that hardly anyone has ever heard of, including the majority of those who would protest the case ... :wall:

Anyway, just a pointer ... deficit & debt aren't interchangeable terms ... We should all hope the UK's budget deficit isn't £1.2Tn! ...

HTH
Z

AnotherJoe

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

I take it that the above relates to the fingers & newts post? ... if so it's not only government inaction, it's also the short-sightedness of environmental movements ... could we build large scale tidal scheme in the Severn estuary to 'save the world' ? ... probably not as it might temporarily disturb some nesting birds or a the migration plans of a slug that hardly anyone has ever heard of, including the majority of those who would protest the case ... :wall:

That's bad enough, but the real biggie in that respect is diesel, foisted on us as an answer to the CO2 problem, but the cure is far worse than the disease and it's so entrenched now the cost to remove it quickly is astronomical.

There was a time it was common to see cars belching smoke. Then that pretty much went away. Now I'm seeing it every day, smaller scale per car but more widespread, You'll frequently see a diesel that every time it changes gear there's a puff of smoke, yet self evidently these cars are not being caught by MOT tests, whether thats because the tests are flawed or defeat devices, I don't know, probably both since I think they measure with the engine running steadily not stop / starting.

We are all forced to breathe this muck so the selfish drivers of these cars can save a few quid.

gzoom

We'll find out about Tesla version of the truck in a few weeks....


https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/29/elon-musk-tesla-electric-semi-truck/


I agree it seems unlikely Tesla can make the maths work for on battery weight versus range on an electric HGV, but people also said it was impossible to successfully land the stage 1 booster from a rocket at sea, but Musk proved everyone wrong on that front......

gzoom

AdrianC wrote: »

Yes, it IS monumental - a supercharger pulls 145kW. At 415v three-phase, that's 350A. Times two, you said? 700A...

There's nothing special or difficult about installing two Superchargers on one site, Tesla have just officially opened the first 16 (SIXTEEN) Supercharge stall site here in the UK, on the M5/6 services (Hoopwood). Apparently a 25 stall site is coming soon!!!

Gloomendoom

Presumably, there is an on-site transformer and the supply from the grid is in the 11 to 33 kV range.

almillar

3. Traditional car manufacturers offering electrics have a mileage limit per annum.

('Traditional car manufacturers' means 'not Tesla', right?)
Not relevant if you PCP/PCH your car. I have a battery lease limiting me to 7,500 miles per year. I also have a PCP on my car, limiting me to, you guessed it, 7,500 miles, just like any other lease/PCP would do on a petrol/diesel car.

4. Traditional car manufacturers offering electrics have similar servicing costs to petrol cars, even though there are at least half the number of parts in an all-new electric model.

They don't. £85 to service a Zoe at a main dealer is cheaper than a Clio.

5. Traditional car manufacturers offering electrics allways use old, energy-intensive (& non-renewable) manufacturing processes (this at least doubles the CO2e that is necessary).

They might. But the BMW i3 doesn't - look it up.

Gloomendoom

There may be half the number of parts in an EV but very few of the other half that you will find in an ICEV would be checked at a service anyway.