Electric cars

gzoom

Highland76 said:

gzoom said:

Highland76 said:

gzoom said:

 So far though under 6p per mile all-in running costs is bonkers cheap.

But it cost you £71k, so the overall cost is hardly "bonkers cheap".

You don't have buy a Tesla. A Leaf/Zoe/Kona etc are all much cheaper, and all will give you the same running cost benefits.

A £25k Leaf/Zoe/Kona doesn't give you decent range on a single charge - hence why I said
"At present, it costs silly money (>£50k) to buy a electric car with decent range (>400 miles)."

There isn't an EV for sale today at any price with a real world range of 400 miles, and very unlikely to be for another 5 years.

I guess EVs aren't just for you, our £70k Model X has a real world range of 200 miles, 46k miles in 3 years and I've never had any issues with range. 

Martyn1981

Highland76 said:

Coastalwatch said:

Highland76 said:

gzoom said:

 So far though under 6p per mile all-in running costs is bonkers cheap.

But it cost you £71k, so the overall cost is hardly "bonkers cheap". Its a bit like a car dealer offering you a brand new petrol/diesel car with free fuel for life....provided you pay £200k up front. At present, it costs silly money (>£50k) to buy a electric car with decent range (>400 miles). Perhaps in 20+ years time that will totally change but as things stand, EVs are a novelty. I will stick with my Audi A6 diesel for a good few years yet, considering it can do up to 700 miles on a full tank and cost about half the price of your Tesla X (bought brand new)

Wow! A top of the range stranded asset. Just think of the pollution that's going to cause over it's lifetime!

Wot even a EUR6 diesel? <face palm>

Yep, loads of pollution and CO2.

Herzlos

Highland76 said:

Herzlos said:

Highland76 said:

gzoom said:

 So far though under 6p per mile all-in running costs is bonkers cheap.

But it cost you £71k, so the overall cost is hardly "bonkers cheap".

You're largely missing the point. The opportunity cost is high for what is a high end vehicle, and it is "bonkers cheap" compared to an ICE equivalent, like a diesel Audi Q7. You can get much cheaper EV's for similar lower per mile costs.

His £71k Tesla X will almost certainly be cheaper to own over 3 years than your £50k Audi 6.

Really? Are you saying I will spend in excess of £36k - as that is the price difference between the 2 - on fuel/servicing costs over 3 years?

If you also include depreciation, yes. If you were to include any kind of congestion charging then hell yes.

Edit: I ran some numbers. According to fleetnews.co.uk the cheapest Tesla X (costing £10k more than gzoom paid) will cost 120.6p/mile to own over 3 years from new. The first £50K Audi A6 costs 120.9p/mile to own for 3 years from new.

So the Tesla is cheaper than your Audi.

Herzlos

Highland76 said:

gzoom said:

Highland76 said:

gzoom said:

 So far though under 6p per mile all-in running costs is bonkers cheap.

But it cost you £71k, so the overall cost is hardly "bonkers cheap".

You don't have buy a Tesla. A Leaf/Zoe/Kona etc are all much cheaper, and all will give you the same running cost benefits.

A £25k Leaf/Zoe/Kona doesn't give you decent range on a single charge - hence why I said
"At present, it costs silly money (>£50k) to buy a electric car with decent range (>400 miles)."

Well, no. Range is expensive and everyone has a decent idea of range. You'll notice that shavy65 is talking about 22 miles range being enough.

400 miles is a fairly standard fuel tank, but that's 4 hours at 100mph (or more likely 8 hours at 50mph). I bet you normally stop for a pee long before then, and your Leaf could be charging whilst you're in the services.

almillar

Highland76 said:

His £71k Tesla X will almost certainly be cheaper to own over 3 years than your £50k Audi 6.

Really? Are you saying I will spend in excess of £36k - as that is the price difference between the 2 - on fuel/servicing costs over 3 years?

You've missed the biggest cost - depreciation. I've no idea how much these two cars will depreciate relatively, but the cost of depreciation will dwarf the 'running' costs.

Highland76 said:

A £25k Leaf/Zoe/Kona doesn't give you decent range on a single charge - hence why I said
"At present, it costs silly money (>£50k) to buy a electric car with decent range (>400 miles)."

No, the Zoe will just about manage 200 miles, less in winter. I've never needed (or had) a car that can do 400 miles on 1 tank. I think you need to adjust your expectations of what a decent range is - 400 miles in one go is an incredible distance to do, without stopping, and certainly not typical of most journeys.

shinytop

almillar said:

Highland76 said:

His £71k Tesla X will almost certainly be cheaper to own over 3 years than your £50k Audi 6.

Really? Are you saying I will spend in excess of £36k - as that is the price difference between the 2 - on fuel/servicing costs over 3 years?

You've missed the biggest cost - depreciation. I've no idea how much these two cars will depreciate relatively, but the cost of depreciation will dwarf the 'running' costs.

Highland76 said:

A £25k Leaf/Zoe/Kona doesn't give you decent range on a single charge - hence why I said
"At present, it costs silly money (>£50k) to buy a electric car with decent range (>400 miles)."

No, the Zoe will just about manage 200 miles, less in winter. I've never needed (or had) a car that can do 400 miles on 1 tank. I think you need to adjust your expectations of what a decent range is - 400 miles in one go is an incredible distance to do, without stopping, and certainly not typical of most journeys.

It's not the range though, it's the location of chargers and the time to charge.  I'd buy a 150-200 mile EV now if it were as easy an quick to charge as a petrol car is to fill.     

Martyn1981

shinytop said:

almillar said:

Highland76 said:

His £71k Tesla X will almost certainly be cheaper to own over 3 years than your £50k Audi 6.

Really? Are you saying I will spend in excess of £36k - as that is the price difference between the 2 - on fuel/servicing costs over 3 years?

You've missed the biggest cost - depreciation. I've no idea how much these two cars will depreciate relatively, but the cost of depreciation will dwarf the 'running' costs.

Highland76 said:

A £25k Leaf/Zoe/Kona doesn't give you decent range on a single charge - hence why I said
"At present, it costs silly money (>£50k) to buy a electric car with decent range (>400 miles)."

No, the Zoe will just about manage 200 miles, less in winter. I've never needed (or had) a car that can do 400 miles on 1 tank. I think you need to adjust your expectations of what a decent range is - 400 miles in one go is an incredible distance to do, without stopping, and certainly not typical of most journeys.

It's not the range though, it's the location of chargers and the time to charge.  I'd buy a 150-200 mile EV now if it were as easy an quick to charge as a petrol car is to fill.     

It's a fair point, though of course the number of chargers will keep expanding. But, for most driving and charging BEV's are vastly easier than an ICE, since you have your own filling station at home. No need for a detour, nor waiting around to fill and pay.
I will admit that last week Wifey and I got an introduction to the poor quality of some chargers. We arrived at our destination with 47% charge remaining, so not a good omen for getting home. The rapid charger 50metres away was dead, the one about a mile away didn't like either card she tried, accepted mine, but then declined the transaction. Back at the destination, and now at 43% we found that the fall back chargers at the services half way home were all off-line. Drats.
Luckily there was a Lidl nearby, with a 50kW charger that took us to 80% in about 10mins, and only cost 23p/kWh, which seems very fair. But certainly shows the limitations of a 70(ish) mile range car needing to rely on a mixed bag of random chargers.
But, as I said, it will of course improve over time, though without strong government support I worry that the chargers (to BEV ratio) will always be behind the curve.

forgotmyname

Silly people who design Motorway services putting the chargers close to the entrance. M42 Hopwood? a year or so back.

Motorhome parked diagonal and a MK3 VW Golf that reeked from 20 feet away, must have had the munchies... Silly putting them
so close, they should have anticipated non EV cars parking there by people too lazy to walk an extra couple of feet.

ElefantEd

forgotmyname said:

Silly people who design Motorway services putting the chargers close to the entrance. M42 Hopwood? a year or so back.

Motorhome parked diagonal and a MK3 VW Golf that reeked from 20 feet away, must have had the munchies... Silly putting them
so close, they should have anticipated non EV cars parking there by people too lazy to walk an extra couple of feet.

I presume the location was to minimise the length of the extra cabling required, which is cheaper and reduces transmission losses. But they should enforce the "only EVs that are actually charging are allowed to park here" rule rather more assiduously.

almillar

shinytop said:

It's not the range though, it's the location of chargers and the time to charge.  I'd buy a 150-200 mile EV now if it were as easy an quick to charge as a petrol car is to fill.     

Sure, but you're looking at it the wrong way, trying to make an EV exactly the same as an ICE. That's why people seem obsessed with Hydrogen. Why do you want to drive somewhere and stand there for a couple of minutes holding a hose, and pay handsomely for it? Why not come back to a full car after parking it at work, the shops or the cinema or a meal out or something? In my experience (I currently run an EV and an ICE) that's more convenient. I have to do it more often than I want to, but that will change when the batteries get bigger. I find having to drive somewhere for my fuel much more inconvenient.