Electric cars

[Deleted User]

NBLondon wrote: »

That's an excellent point. Not sure if the mainstream hire companies like e.g Enterrpise will take the risk yet - how would they get around the issue of hirers with range anxiety? Maybe there's a niche market for people who have an electric city car and want to hire something bigger once in a while?
Car clubs could be the way in - there's a gaggle of Zip cars in my bit of South London including e-Golfs which are mostly 67 plates. Could they be coming on the market soon?

There will be increasing demand for EV rentals. I had to get some work done on mine a few years back and they couldn't provide an EV so I had to drive a fossil, and then claim fuel costs back.

almillar

The i3 is priced at similar levels to the ZE50 but currently has a far lower range ... of course this shortfall can currently be sold as being due to a differential in brand aspiration, BMWs tend to sell at a premium to many other brands throughout their respective ranges.

Indeed, but to simply put it down to brand aspiration is selling the i3 short. Whilst Renault make a big deal about Zoe being made on the Clio line, to make it cheap, BMW went a different direction with the i3, building a very sustainable factory for it, and using lots of recyclable material for it. It's beautiful inside, far nicer than Zoe, and far faster too (I've driven one). And there is (was) the option of the ReX. To simply put the price difference down to brand is a bit unfair on the i3. But compare the i3 to TM3, since we DO have UK prices, and it looks like an expensive little car.

zeupater

almillar wrote: »

Indeed, but to simply put it down to brand aspiration is selling the i3 short. Whilst Renault make a big deal about Zoe being made on the Clio line, to make it cheap, BMW went a different direction with the i3, building a very sustainable factory for it, and using lots of recyclable material for it. It's beautiful inside, far nicer than Zoe, and far faster too (I've driven one). And there is (was) the option of the ReX. To simply put the price difference down to brand is a bit unfair on the i3. But compare the i3 to TM3, since we DO have UK prices, and it looks like an expensive little car.

Hi

Yes, we do have UK prices for the i3 ... as already noted, they're likely to be vary similar to the ZE50 and therefore close enough to the TM3 for all 3 vehicles to make it onto an initial selection list for anyone looking into spend that much in the EV market .... don't forget the alternative provided by the MG ZS that RichardD1970 mentioned either, £28.5 to £30.5k before grant & limited availability launch discount, so a reasonable alternative for an even larger format vehicle if the range isn't too much of an issue (~weekly charging for average mileage(?)) ...

The competition for Renault here would probably be against the current ZE40 ... initially looks like a similar price, but with the specs/trim looking to be decent & the advantage of an owned battery it could easily be considered to be listing at ~25% better value and therefore be of interest to those considering vehicles in the sub £20-£30k bracket as opposed to the £30-£40k one (incl grants etc).

The issue here is that Renault can't afford to sit back and expect the marketplace to not change around them. We're talking about the Zoe not competing on product against TM3, not competing on brand image with TM3 & BMWi3 and not competing on price with the likes of the MGZS ....

Whether the customer is looking at product, image or price it's not an enviable position for Renault to be in, caught in the middle & seemingly not recognising it. They've really got three paths out of the dilemma .. improve brand image - add more tech & upgrade standard specs - or reduce prices, two of which probably have limited short-term scope in the mass market mini/supermini sector, so it's just down to addressing price competitiveness to open a gap to Tesla at one end & close the gap on MG (and others lining up to grab considerable slices of European market share) at the other ... but then again, isn't this exactly what we've been discussing for a while ?! ....

HTH
Z

Herzlos

NBLondon wrote: »

That's an excellent point. Not sure if the mainstream hire companies like e.g Enterrpise will take the risk yet - how would they get around the issue of hirers with range anxiety?

I'm not sure what range the average hire is. I usually end up doing under about 100 miles over a hire which I can do on any electric car now without even having to charge.

silverwhistle

NBLondon wrote: »

Not sure if the mainstream hire companies like e.g Enterrpise will take the risk yet - how would they get around the issue of hirers with range anxiety? Maybe there's a niche market.. ?

It's the usual question of horses for courses, and greater familiarity (and ranges) will only increase the market. You may even get people who might see it as an opportunity to try out an electric car - like an even shorter short term Evezy.


It would save all that hassle with full (or not..) tanks of petrol on return, although clients would need to learn to check for full batteries on pick up!

Herzlos

silverwhistle wrote: »

It would save all that hassle with full (or not..) tanks of petrol on return, although clients would need to learn to check for full batteries on pick up!

Good point, fueling up returned cars must be a real pain so being able to recharge them on the site would be a huge convenience both for parties. Maybe not so much good for huge traffic places that regularly run out of prepared stock.


At the end of the day; most customers will just hire whatever the cheapest option is anyway rather than by fuel type. If EV's provide a cheaper TOC we'll start seeing them appear. There must be less for the hirers to damage, though I'm not sure a rental company cares if they are selling them off after 6-12 months anyway.

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

The issue here is that Renault can't afford to sit back and expect the marketplace to not change around them.

HTH
Z

Yep, as you've acknowledged before, Renault (and Nissan) have done a lot more than others, but it's not enough in a market that can be expected to shift ever faster.

The GM Bolt is a good package, but were they serious about BEV's or just trying to stall?

Tesla Sold More Model 3s In Q2 2019 Than GM Sold Chevy Bolts Worldwide Since Its Birth

I think the train has almost left the station, the old boys need to jump on board now, or struggle going forward.

Look at Audi, how are they promoting there E-tron, not at dealerships, but at Tesla Superchargers, giving Tesla owners the chance to try them out.

So, they have a vehicle that can't match the specs of a 2012 TMS, and they want to 'steal' Tesla customers?

I wonder why they aren't trying to sell Audi's to Audi owners, perhaps at ........ I don't know, Audi dealerships?

zeupater

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Yep, as you've acknowledged before, Renault (and Nissan) have done a lot more than others, but it's not enough in a market that can be expected to shift ever faster.

The GM Bolt is a good package, but were they serious about BEV's or just trying to stall?

Tesla Sold More Model 3s In Q2 2019 Than GM Sold Chevy Bolts Worldwide Since Its Birth

I think the train has almost left the station, the old boys need to jump on board now, or struggle going forward.

Look at Audi, how are they promoting there E-tron, not at dealerships, but at Tesla Superchargers, giving Tesla owners the chance to try them out.

So, they have a vehicle that can't match the specs of a 2012 TMS, and they want to 'steal' Tesla customers?

I wonder why they aren't trying to sell Audi's to Audi owners, perhaps at ........ I don't know, Audi dealerships?

Hi

... And that's the issue that the industry finds itself in in a nutshell! .... as for Audi, it's likely a pretty hard proposition to enforce stocking & active selling of a product which has huge long term negative impacts on their dealerships' business models without there being considerable pushback ....

... maybe it would be considered a little rude if Tesla reacted in kind by parking their range of vehicles on Audi forecourts in order to convey a simple message related to when parking tanks on someone else's lawns, make sure that they're up to the job!

HTH
Z

shinytop

Martyn1981 wrote: »

So, they have a vehicle that can't match the specs of a 2012 TMS, and they want to 'steal' Tesla customers?

In my view therein lies the problem. Tesla has without a doubt stolen a march on the other mainstream manufacturers. But IMO they have set the overall EV bar low. All Audi or BMW has to do is build another huge SUV or luxo-barge that has a range as good as a Tesla and they have a winner. When you have £80k and 2.5 tonnes to play with is that really that hard? It's a real shame that the EV battle is being fought at this end of the market. The world doesn't need more huge private vehicles carrying one or maybe two people. I mean, even Tesla's budget model is going to be the best part of £40k and is by most standards a large car. As far as the majority of people in the UK let alone other parts of the world are concerned, that might as well be £40m. I will no doubt own an EV one day but I'm not paying £40k for one.

Great thread by the way

Herzlos

Luxury cars usually lead the way though - there's no shortage of buyers will to pay a premium for the prestige.


Plus, whilst a TM3 is over £40k, it's potentially still a lot cheaper in TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) once you factor in tax, congestion charging, servicing, fuel, residuals and so on. For the sales reps doing 20k+ miles a year and paying BIK on their cars, an EV makes a lot of sense. Not so for someones gran going to Asda twice a week.


Once the technology is mature there, it'll trickle down, and there will be plenty of used ones on the market.