Electric cars

Jonesya

jk0 wrote: »

Anyone see this:
https://www.dw.com/en/ifo-study-casts-doubt-on-electric-vehicles-climate-saving-credentials/a-48460328

Yes - the outcome was heavily skewed by Germany's electricity generation being very dependent on coal, and in particular on lignite, which is brown coal, which has higher CO2 emissions than hard coal. In the UK we no longer burn much coal at all, and we've never used brown coal at all for power generation.

The outcome of any study depends on your assumptions and how you model the problem.

The fact that the carbon count tips clearly in favor of combustion engines is primarily the result of Germany's fossil-fuel-heavy energy production, the researchers however say.

zeupater

jk0 wrote: »

Anyone see this:


https://www.dw.com/en/ifo-study-casts-doubt-on-electric-vehicles-climate-saving-credentials/a-48460328

Hi

I'd simply take the headline with a pinch of salt, just as the article tends to do within it's own detail ... a typical case of the headline acting as a hook which isn't fully supported by the content, for example ...

... The fact that the carbon count tips clearly in favor of combustion engines is primarily the result of Germany's fossil-fuel-heavy energy production, the researchers however say ...

... Another criticism concerned the carbon data from battery production, which was allegedly too high ...

HTH
Z

buglawton

jk0 wrote: »

Anyone see this:
https://www.dw.com/en/ifo-study-casts-doubt-on-electric-vehicles-climate-saving-credentials/a-48460328

Had a look. Where in that renowned study did it explain how fossil fuel vehicles would get a partial energy top up from renewable power?
While energy banking is poor at the moment, presumably even now part of the 'leccy supply is from wind (UK) and solar (USA) etc?
I could not see any mention of renewable diesel in that study.

Martyn1981

jk0 wrote: »

Anyone see this:


https://www.dw.com/en/ifo-study-casts-doubt-on-electric-vehicles-climate-saving-credentials/a-48460328

US studies have shown that even in the States with the most coal generation (by percentage) BEV's are clear winners.

The German auto industry will say anything to delay electrification, and the German government will accept it.

Also worth noting that ICE's get worse over their lifetime as engine efficiency drops, whereas BEV's get cleaner every year as the share of RE leccy on the grid expands.

Next we have the fact that Germany is steadily expanding its RE generation, it actually hit 77% on Easter Monday due to a good spike in both wind and solar that day.

And finally, Germany is a tricky case. The mining industry has large political sway, so attempts by some of the owners of lignite generation powerstations to shutdown (permanently) have been blocked (they need government permission) under claims of national energy strategies. So the result is that as RE has expanded massively in Germany, so have their leccy exports. In a weird twist of fate much of their coal and lignite generation is surplus to requirements, pulls down the spot price (too much supply) and makes it attractive to its neighbours who then buy that cheap generation. France is now a large net importer of leccy from Germany, effectively consuming unnecessary dirty lignite generation.

Politics and the environment clash yet again, sadly.

Martyn1981

gzoom wrote: »

But after spending the last 4 years in EVs, you would have to pay me to do the same trip again in ANY combustion car, infact I would just pocket the cash and take the EV anyways.

If you enjoy motoring and driving EVs are simply better, its as simple as that.

Driving our current EV puts a bigger smile on my face than any of my previous cars, and thats saying something when our current EV is in effect a 6 seater van with fancy doors. I cannot wait to swap it for a 2+2 electric powered coupe in 20 years time when family duties melt away.

This article reminded me of your post, especially the fact that a BEV is beating an ICE so soon. I can only imagine what BMW could be capable of building (BEV wise) when they get serious about it:

Tesla Model 3 Performance Crushes Fossil BMW M3 Around Race Track

The BMW M3 was born in 1986, and has been continuously developed and improved by BMW’s motor sport division ever since (over 3 decades now). It has long been viewed as offering the pinnacle of mid-sized sports sedan performance.

The Tesla Model 3 is the first full electric mid-sized sedan ever mass produced by any automaker, and the platform was developed for efficiency, zero emissions, autonomy, and technology (amongst other things), not primarily for performance.

The very first iteration of an electric mid-sized sedan to have a performance option beating out the longstanding stalwart of fossil fueled sports sedans … does not bode well for the old tech. After all, the fossil technology has already benefited from over a century of refinements and improvements. If we look 5 or 10 years down the road, what refinements and improvements will EV technology gain, to further the performance lead over fossils?

buglawton

All in all the pull of BEV is not strong enough for me, my next vehicle will be another petrol IC one, I'd be able to get a used Kia with 4 years warranty on it for under £10,000 I'm hoping. Any used EV would be a big compromise on range. Not interested in hybrids as they are over complicated and would not save much on my gentle commutes. I do around 10,000 per year.

zeupater

buglawton wrote: »

All in all the pull of BEV is not strong enough for me, my next vehicle will be another petrol IC one, I'd be able to get a used Kia with 4 years warranty on it for under £10,000 I'm hoping. Any used EV would be a big compromise on range. Not interested in hybrids as they are over complicated and would not save much on my gentle commutes. I do around 10,000 per year.

Hi

If the low mileage is mainly due to short or mainly urban journeys I would have thought that a hybrid would be ideal because of the energy recovery alone! ...

HTH
Z

Herzlos

At 10,000 miles a year I doubt the range on a modern EV will be a problem either.
It's probably around the point where the EV will be cheaper too, since you should be able to get a decent Leaf with a 100+ mile range for £10k now.

Martyn1981

Herzlos wrote: »

At 10,000 miles a year I doubt the range on a modern EV will be a problem either.
It's probably around the point where the EV will be cheaper too, since you should be able to get a decent Leaf with a 100+ mile range for £10k now.

Stop it with the solutions. Have you not realised the point of this thread yet?

Martyn1981

Here's one for the geeks, Tesla's new chip hits 144 TOPS, and beats their 100W target at just 70W. They've also suggested that its future replacement (approx 3yrs and already being worked on) should be 3x more powerful again.

Tesla claims its latest self-driving chip is 7 times more powerful than its rivals’

They also revealed that due to lessons learned and lower costs, the Shanghai TM3 should have an OPEX of almost 50% of the original US TM3. And the US TMY will also have a lower OPEX than the TM3.

Again, putting Tesla aside, this suggests that there's an awful lot of 'lessons learned' cost savings to come as BEV production ramps up.