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Electric cars
Comments
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Martyn1981 wrote: »As I said to Ade, if that's what it takes to keep you happy then add as many as you like into the Alliance to match Tesla. FUD won't write itself.
So for 2018 we see that Tesla accounted for 11% of PEV sales, with the TM3 accounting for 7% v's the Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe which added together are 6%.
In 2018, Tesla sold almost as many cars as all previous years added together. This year we will see greater sales due to the TM3's ramp up (v's 2018). Then we will have the Chinese gigafactory and TMY coming on line too.
[Timely addendum - Possible production in China this year, but presumably small, and an expected 50% increase in production in 2019 over 2018.]
For an EV thread, it's strange how much effort goes into knocking EV's and especially the leading manufacturer of BEV's, given that the whole world will be shifting to BEV's going forward.
Still, I'm sure there is something in there that you or Ade can use to attack Tesla, if you really must. Or perhaps you would like to help Ade 'lay into' VW, as he seems to be struggling, and balance is of course needed, if FUD claims are to be avoided.
It's not us adding to the alliance, that is an all ready established partnership. Just pointing out facts.
I have not "attacked" Tesla at all. I don't particularly like them as cars but you have to admire them for what they have done.
I have no problem with EV's and haven't once knocked them. If I was in the market for a new car I would seriously look at the viability of ownership for me, probably the new Kia or Hyundai. Money no object Jag i-Pace.
As it is my next car, probably in a couple of years, will 99% be at least hybrid.
Perhaps you ought to comprehend what's been written instead of coming out, attacking, aggressively throwing accusations.0 -
RichardD1970 wrote: »It's not us adding to the alliance, that is an all ready established partnership. Just pointing out facts.
And as I've said, I have no problem you adding companies together, whether they are in an 'alliance', or just for fun, if that's what you and Ade need to do to knock Tesla's lead.
As far as I can see, desperate times need desperate solutions, so adding multiple companies together seems like an ideal solution for those needing to FUD it up.
BTW, how many western companies would your alliance (virtual or otherwise) now need, to match Tesla in 2018 for BEV's? By my reckoning you need all of the BEV's listed in that top 20, plus most of the PHEV's too, but of course there may be other BEV's by the western companies that didn't make the top 20, like the Bolt, that's another 1%, and let's not forget the great news that Mary Barra of GM announced recently - GM EV's are expected to become profitable in the first half of the next decade.
And in case you want to go on (and on, and on) about not knocking Tesla or EV's, might I point out that it was your decision to defend Ade's silliness of trying to play down Tesla's lead by referencing an alliance, which even together doesn't match Tesla in 2018.
PS Did you read the rest of the Wiki intro you linked too:Following the November 2018 arrest and imprisonment of Alliance chairman and CEO Carlos Ghosn, accompanied by his dismissal from both Nissan and Mitsubishi, press analysts have questioned both the stability of the Alliance's shareholding agreement and its long-term existence.[13]. These analysts also note that, because the companies' recent business strategies are interdependent, attempts to restructure the Alliance could be counter-productive for all of the members.[14]Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Hi
However, combined global sales of 500k units since 2010 only describes the total number of vehicles that may potentially still be on the road ... looking at different timescales may show different results in terms of market share and with the changing market it's not really logical to look at summary data which results from too long a historic period ... compared to the 300k cumulative build of Leaf models mentioned in the link, the TM3 will likely pass this total around the middle of this year despite all of the production issues that are continually raised by the EV naysayers on this thread & elsewhere ...
HTH
Z
By any chance, does this link (in context with your comment) make you smile?
See graph for leading US EV sales with the Leaf and Volt slowly being caught by the TMS ....... then the newcomer arrives - min 21:00Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
More good news for EV's (sorry Ade).
Electric cars are already cheaper to own and run, says studyElectric cars are already cheaper to own and run than petrol or diesel alternatives in five European countries analysed in new research.
The study examined the purchase, fuel and tax costs of Europe’s bestselling car, the VW golf, in its battery electric, hybrid, petrol and diesel versions. Over four years, the pure electric version was the cheapest in all places – UK, Germany, France, Netherlands and Norway – owing to a combination of lower taxes, fuel costs and subsidies on the purchase price.
Researchers from the International Council for Clean Transportation (ICCT) said their report showed that tax breaks are a key way to drive the rollout of electric vehicles and tackle climate change and air pollution.
Carbon emissions from transport are a big contributor to global warming, but have been rising in recent years in the European Union. Vehicles are also a source of much air pollution, which causes 500,000 early deaths a year in the EU.Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Electric cars are already cheaper to own and run than petrol or diesel alternatives in five European countries analysed in new research.
Anyway, here's the actual report... (Published in December - must be a slow news day)
https://www.theicct.org/publications/using-vehicle-taxation-policy-lower-transport-emissions
I thought this was meant to have been an absolute no-brainer for many moons already...? It's largely artificial, of course, given the massive taxation advantages - which the [STRIKE]recycled press release[/STRIKE] article mentions in the third paragraph. And, of course, it's not exactly a neutral body doing the study.
So, basically, it's "EV-promotion body send out press release stating bleedin' obvious". Hold the front page.
But let's look more closely at the report. We don't need to get very far in before eyebrows go up... In fact... Section 1 - Introduction, sentence 1. "A typical new diesel Golf costs €47k in NL, €38k in D". Umm, hold on. <checks on vw.de and vw.nl> Yup, thought as much. Diesel Golfs start at €19k in D and €24k in NL. The prices they give are far closer to those for the Golf GTD, the top-spec diesel. They also don't appear to make any allowance for residual value at the end of the four-year study period - so why not use typical lease costs instead?
Even without digging any deeper, my overwhelming response is that I'm actually surprised at how low the savings are claimed to be at the end of the study. 5% in the UK to 15% in Norway, which has massive tax advantages in place? Is that all...?
Now, the question arising surely has to be whether those tax breaks are in any way sustainable once we get past the early adopter/visionary phase of the typical innovation adoption lifecycle curve...? Aren't we past that phase now, and into the steeper rise of early majority/pragmatists...?
So are the tax breaks going to be there for long? They're already being wound back in many markets.0 -
Martyn1981 wrote: »And as I've said, I have no problem you adding companies together, whether they are in an 'alliance', or just for fun, if that's what you and Ade need to do to knock Tesla's lead.
As far as I can see, desperate times need desperate solutions, so adding multiple companies together seems like an ideal solution for those needing to FUD it up.
BTW, how many western companies would your alliance (virtual or otherwise) now need, to match Tesla in 2018 for BEV's? By my reckoning you need all of the BEV's listed in that top 20, plus most of the PHEV's too, but of course there may be other BEV's by the western companies that didn't make the top 20, like the Bolt, that's another 1%, and let's not forget the great news that Mary Barra of GM announced recently - GM EV's are expected to become profitable in the first half of the next decade.
And in case you want to go on (and on, and on) about not knocking Tesla or EV's, might I point out that it was your decision to defend Ade's silliness of trying to play down Tesla's lead by referencing an alliance, which even together doesn't match Tesla in 2018.
PS Did you read the rest of the Wiki intro you linked too:
I haven't gone on and on and on, as you put it.
I have never knocked Tesla or EV's.
Nor have I tried to play down anything, just pointed out facts (nothing virtual). Nor did I chose to "defend Ade's silliness", I'm not on "his side", again just stating facts (ie Nissan and Renault (and later, Mitsuishi) have been in an Alliance since 1999, before Tesla even existed).
No FUD.
You really do lack objectivity on this subject, don't you.
And, as usual ignore most of what is written.
As I said last time., it's pointless trying to have a rational discussion/debate with you. Don't know why I bothered to try again.0 -
RichardD1970 wrote: »I haven't gone on and on and on, as you put it.
Hiya Richard, I didn't say you'd gone on and on, I suggested you might, and you have. Hopefully you appreciate that you are now playing Ade's game, where he's distracted the conversation away from Tesla's great numbers, and instead created a chain of pointless intercourse.RichardD1970 wrote: »I have never knocked Tesla or EV's.
Nor have I tried to play down anything, just pointed out facts (nothing virtual). Nor did I chose to "defend Ade's silliness", I'm not on "his side", again just stating facts (ie Nissan and Renault (and later, Mitsuishi) have been in an Alliance since 1999, before Tesla even existed).
No FUD.
So let's have a quick recap of the overall position. Ade needs to attack all good news about Tesla and EV's, he's been doing it now across 3yrs, and you will obviously be aware of that.
Ade can't stop, that would mean he's been wrong all along, so he's now trapped in a perpetual loop of trying to knock down anything good.
In the case of Tesla's surging BEV sales, and their dominant position now as leading BEV manufacturer, Ade had a problem, so he chose to combine numbers by referring to the alliance in 2018 H1, as individually, each company was failing behind, fast. And of course, for 2018 as a whole, even that's not enough.
In the face of the obvious and continuing FUD and nonsense from Ade, and the silliness between him and me, when I choose to pushback against him, you decided to get in the middle.
So, I'll repeat what I've been saying, if you or Ade need to combine the numbers to still fail to match Tesla, or want to add in lots of other companies too, then that's fine, whatever rocks your boat, but it's a pointless diversionary route as Tesla is now a mass producer of BEV's, and their production numbers have significant increases already baked in, with rising TM3 production, the Chinese Gigafactory, and the TMY production coming.RichardD1970 wrote: »You really do lack objectivity on this subject, don't you.
I'm simply pushing back against pointless negativity. No idea why you object to that, nor why my playing with (laughing at) Ade should upset you and result in all these little attacks and insults.RichardD1970 wrote: »And, as usual ignore most of what is written.
More insults, but why do you want to get into this issue so deeply, it's pointless negativity and FUD from Ade. It's what he does, what he needs to do. I'll pushback whether you like it or not.RichardD1970 wrote: »As I said last time., it's pointless trying to have a rational discussion/debate with you. Don't know why I bothered to try again.
And more attacks, why? I'm going to pushback, sorry, but I'm going to. And on joke matters like this one, what rational discussion/debate is needed? It started as comical desperation and has only gone down hill since then.
If you want a rational debate, then I'm your man. I find the subject fascinating, the move towards an 'S' curve (supply willing) is great to watch, the environmental benefits are massive.
As you might see, if you want, I read and watch loads on this subject, and post a huge number of links to articles, almost all of which get attacked with 'silliness' from Ade (see his last post). So I want to have a rational discussion on the subject, but of course Ade tries to hijack every new item or talking point.
So if you want to chat, great, much appreciated, and I hope I don't bore you too much. But if you want to attack me, rather than engage me on these subjects then that's your choice, but if you jump into the middle of Ade/Mart silliness, then don't expect me to agree with you.Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Well, whoop-de-flippin'-doo.
Anyway, here's the actual report... (Published in December - must be a slow news day)
Apologies for upsetting you, but in my defence I did warn you that it was good news for EV's.
Perhaps to prevent too much further upset, I'd best point out now that the EV news is only going to get better in 2019, 2020 ...... and so on. Sorry.Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Martyn1981 wrote: »So if you want to chat, great, much appreciated, and I hope I don't bore you too much.
@ Richard - Speaking of chats, and Tesla production numbers, did you find the link I posted for Z (min 21:00) interesting?
Forgetting that it's Tesla, hopefully this demonstrates a shift in the way (numbers) EV's are being produced and sold, and could be (almost certainly is) the shift into serious EV and especially BEV rollout.
Obviously what we really need is another 5-10 companies churning out similar numbers, but baby steps.Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
To be honest I think most people on here now just ignore AdrianC.There may be some points that have to be made to counteract any company's marketing, but we've had to put up with constant negativity for some time now and it does get a bit wearing.
I find it interesting how demand is increasing and manufacturers such as as Hyundai and Kia can't keep up. The problem is that this makes it easier for them to maintain prices. Volkswagen's plans for expansion should shake the market up, although I'm more a Skoda or Dacia sort of lass!
Incidentally, I've just got back from my skiing holiday in Italy and was musing that I've seen no plans from FIAT for any electric vehicles. There's some way to go before wholesale adoption of EVs, but are they in danger of being left behind? Maybe the issue is that their strength lies in small cars and they are the most difficult to make EV and with the smallest margins.0
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