Electric cars

jimbo6977

silverwhistle wrote: »

To be honest I think most people on here now just ignore AdrianC.There may be some points that have to be made to counteract any company's marketing, but we've had to put up with constant negativity for some time now and it does get a bit wearing.


I find it interesting how demand is increasing and manufacturers such as as Hyundai and Kia can't keep up. The problem is that this makes it easier for them to maintain prices. Volkswagen's plans for expansion should shake the market up, although I'm more a Skoda or Dacia sort of lass!


Incidentally, I've just got back from my skiing holiday in Italy and was musing that I've seen no plans from FIAT for any electric vehicles. There's some way to go before wholesale adoption of EVs, but are they in danger of being left behind? Maybe the issue is that their strength lies in small cars and they are the most difficult to make EV and with the smallest margins.

FCA already produces a mild hybrid version of the Chrysler Pacifica (I'd love one but I don't have EUR80,000 spare to import one from Germany) and an electric Fiat 500. They have announced a raft of electric Jeep, Maserati and Fiat models.

However, the head of FCA changes his mind as often as his socks, and the group is a bit of a mess frankly (for example they still produce a b-segment Lancia for sale in Italy only) so it's difficult to be certain as to what might happen next.

AdrianC

silverwhistle wrote: »

Incidentally, I've just got back from my skiing holiday in Italy and was musing that I've seen no plans from FIAT for any electric vehicles. There's some way to go before wholesale adoption of EVs, but are they in danger of being left behind? Maybe the issue is that their strength lies in small cars and they are the most difficult to make EV and with the smallest margins.

Fiat-Chrysler are hardly "only small cars". Half the reason they didn't get into EV earlier was Sergio Marchione didn't really go for the concept - but he retired and then died last summer, since when they've been much more bullish under the new CEO, the former head of the Jeep brand.


The electric 500e has been on the market since 2013, but very quietly so, and only in certain markets. It's going to be relaunched next year.
https://www.fiatusa.com/500e.html

gzoom

AdrianC wrote: »

Even without digging any deeper, my overwhelming response is that I'm actually surprised at how low the savings are claimed to be at the end of the study. 5% in the UK

Here are some REAL world numbers for you.

I've always enjoyed spending money on nice/fast cars, when my daughter was born I recognised that a 7 seater SUV is actually quite useful.

So using man maths based on performance and utility we were 'happy' to pay £71k for a Tesla Model X in March 2016, same real world performance as my old 335i but this time the grandparents can come too!!

VED is £0, we've done 30K miles in 2 years at a fuel cost of 2.5p per mile, 'free for life' fuel at Tesla Superchargers, and have spent £0 so far on servicing - though new tyres needed soon, but I actually have another set of wheels with brand new tyres ready to go on which Tesla sent to me for free .

Looking at Autotrader for used prices if I was to stick up our car for £5k less than what we paid for it, it'll be amounts the cheapest Model X for sale.

So by my calculations our X is costing us 19p per mile including depreciation AND running costs, excluding insurance. Frankly thats a crazy low figure for a £70k daily wagon, and borders on bangerecnomcis running cost figures.

Can you point me to another SUV that does 0-60 in under 5 seconds that comes in within 5% of those numbers?? I suspect a SQ7 which has similar performance and utility will be cost 19p per mile in fuel costs alone!!

Martyn1981

gzoom wrote: »

Looking at Autotrader for used prices if I was to stick up our car for £5k less than what we paid for it, it'll be amounts the cheapest Model X for sale.

Hiya. Can I ask, is that £5k below the price you paid for the car, or £5k below the price after EV grant?

Either way, it's still a shockingly small amount of depreciation, but it's handy to have all these facts and figures in the back of my mind. Cheers.

Oh, one other question, and again just interest, no plans nor possibility of buying an X, but how do you find the width? I used to own a big old lump of Pontiac Firebird, and whilst you get used to the length quite quickly, I found the width a right pain for parking spaces, and narrow entrance ways etc.. Is the X OK, or is it a bit of a boat?

buglawton

Saw an ad on TV yesterday for a Toyota hybrid that the voiceover described as a 'self-charging car'.

AdrianC

gzoom wrote: »

Here are some REAL world numbers for you.
...
Can you point me to another SUV that does 0-60 in under 5 seconds that comes in within 5% of those numbers??

Remember that 5% isn't my figure. It's the UK figure from the International Council on Clean Transport report behind the article Martyn posted.

AdrianC wrote:

I'm actually surprised at how low the savings are claimed to be at the end of the study. 5% in the UK...? Is that all...?

Perhaps if the report had indeed taken depreciation into account - one of my criticisms of it, if you recall - then your figure might have been more closely represented.

So why has the depreciation on your car been so low? You paid £71k three years ago next month and 30k miles ago, and you could sell it for £66k now. Sure, it's a now-discontinued small-battery model, so new prices have risen markedly and now start at £91k (without free supercharging).

Tesla's own headline finance figures give a PCP cost of £11k down and £1,184/mo for the cheapest new Model X, on a 3yr/10k-yr contract, with a balloon of £48,575. That would put your three year/30k ownership cost to nearly 11x your depreciation figure - £53,624, or £1.79/mile.

buglawton wrote: »

Saw an ad on TV yesterday for a Toyota hybrid that the voiceover described as a 'self-charging car'.

Yes, it's become the new term for a non-plug-in hybrid. Ridiculous, isn't it?

azcn2503

We put our order in for the Kona a few days ago. Not cheap, so expecting backlash, but it's something we've wanted for a while. We like the car and the "feeling" of driving electric. Now just 53 weeks until delivery...

gzoom

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Hiya. Can I ask, is that £5k below the price you paid for the car, or £5k below the price after EV grant?

Either way, it's still a shockingly small amount of depreciation, but it's handy to have all these facts and figures in the back of my mind. Cheers.

Oh, one other question, and again just interest, no plans nor possibility of buying an X, but how do you find the width? I used to own a big old lump of Pontiac Firebird, and whilst you get used to the length quite quickly, I found the width a right pain for parking spaces, and narrow entrance ways etc.. Is the X OK, or is it a bit of a boat?

£5K is post what I paid for it, Tesla have always quoted price after the EV grant.


As for size, doing 30K in 2 years probably tells you all you need to know. Our car is the main family car, underground car parks, multi-storeys, width restrictions, I never hand any issue.


The main limiting factor has been my daughter, up until recently 2hrs was the max she could tolerate in the car a day, but now she is managing 2hr stints with ease.


Since 1st of Jan this year we've 2300 miles already, with a plenty of road trips to come in the summer we'll do over 20K in the X this year easily.


Given how expensive the car is to buy, and how cheap it is to run am more than happy its getting used so much .

AdrianC

Umm, you said you bought it in March 2016? That's three years ago next month. Tempus fugit.

gzoom

AdrianC wrote: »

So why has the depreciation on your car been so low?

We didn't dropped £70K+ on a car without doing some serious numbers about future costs first.


The actual cost of a new X in the spec we have (6 seater, white leather) is £100,900+delivery fee. That's a whopping 43% increase in price - Yes the current base X has 30-50 mile more range, but that's some premium to pay for not a lot extra range!!


So in comparison £65K for our used is pretty good 'saving' compared to a £100K new one.


Maybe its age, having a family, but with the X I have zero interest in changing cars or looking else where which is something I always had with my previous cars.


We will be keeping ours till the 8 year and unlimited mileage warranty on the battery/motor is up. The only thing that might make me sell up is if running costs go through the roof, bare in mind the X has powered front/rear doors, massive windscreen, 4 powered seats, x2 HAVC systems, air-suspension there is ALOT to go wrong aside from the motor/battery.


But there is a rental company in the states whom run Teslas from LA to Vegas. Their Xs have clocked up now over 300K miles, and they make their entire service records public....


https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2019/2/6/tesloops-high-mileage-teslas


The summary is despite the internet 'experts' claiming Teslas are built badly, poor quality etc, these cars last, and last well.


I don't think we'll hit 300K in 8 years of ownership in ours but 150K may well be possible, and looking at potential running costs aside from tyres there really is not much else which goes wrong......The Falcon Wing doors in particularly really don't seem to fail, despite carrying so many passengers.


I actually don't really care about residuals - hence not servicing the thing (warranty is intact regardless of servicing). As they say our X is more certainly a 'keeper'. £71K is a lot to spend on a car, but its going to be in the family for life than that figure doesn't seem so bad .