Electric cars

Martyn1981

buglawton wrote: »

3rd jan 2019:
https://londonlovesbusiness.com/tesla-shares-tumble-on-disappointing-quarterly-performance/
Tesla shares sank 8 per cent today after the car maker delivered fewer-than-expected Model 3 sedans in the fourth quarter. The company added that it will be reducing the price of Model S, Model X and Model 3 vehicles in the US by $2,000 (£1,587).

and ....... ?

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

... Although it's highly likely that this will be the first of many reductions over the coming years as economies of scale savings on EVs and their specific components become available.

HTH
Z

I seem to recall they dropped the prices of the S & X a few years ago by about $5k 'to reflect battery cost reductions'.

The $2k price drop is quite a clever move. Not all Americans will benefit from the $7,500 tax rebate, ($3,750 from 1st Jan), if they haven't earned enough in the year, and they have to wait for the rebate, whilst still paying the full cost of the car.

The $2k price drop will be seen on day one, also mean a reduced sales tax, and reduced loan payments. Quite a clever PR move.

BTW, GM also hit the 200,000 US EV sales threshold in Q4, so they will start to see the same reductions, just 6 months behind Tesla.

Martyn1981

I heard mention of a super cheap car from China (on Transport Evolved I think, or was it Tesla Time News(?)) a while back, but few details, so here's an article from a respected/reliable site with more info, but I seem to recall it had a top speed of 100km/h.

Obviously it won't be a high quality, nor I suspect 'safe enough' car for true comparison, but certainly a step in the right direction for super cheap city commuting.

Great Wall ORA R1 — An Electric Car With ~140 Miles Of Range For Less Than $10,000

Chinese automaker Great Wall is set to introduce its ORA R1 electric car. The R1 is no Tesla, not by any stretch of the imagination. But it has 4 wheels, a battery, and an electric motor, and can travel almost 200 miles on a single charge according to The Express. Best of all, the company says it sells for between $8,680 and $11,293 after deducting EV subsidies available in China.

Martyn1981

Herzlos wrote: »

But Tesla doesn't have a Crossover yet, so I think it's fair to compare like with like. Unless you want to also add light trucks into the definition of cars?

For the space Tesla is competing in at this exact moment, it's doing amazingly well for something you're adamant isn't viable for some reason.

Absolutely. For the market they compete in they are crushing it. And more importantly, I believe this is an EV thing, not just a Tesla thing.

For the luxury car market in the US, Tesla was #1 in December and #2 for the whole year. Expanding the market to all luxury cars, SUV's and CUV's, they were #4 and #6 respectively.

I think that proves the market is ready and waiting for EV's.

Herzlos wrote: »

Do they have plans for a Crossover, at more in line with the TM3 than the TMX? Because that'd be a real big seller (and likely what I'd go for - the X is stunning but I'll never be able to justify it).

The TMY launches this year, so expect the same ole BS when profits take a hit due to the rollout expenditure.

On that subject, perhaps also brace yourself for more FUD and BS in the next quarter report, as Tesla will see a large hike in their 'in transit' figures for the TM3 as they start to sell in China and Europe. Unless of course, they carefully stagger sales/deliveries off-continent to avoid the last few weeks of each quarter, just to keep the FUD'ers quiet.

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I heard mention of a super cheap car from China
...
Obviously it won't be a high quality, nor I suspect 'safe enough' car for true comparison, but certainly a step in the right direction for super cheap city commuting.

Indeed it won't. Nor does the Baojun E100/200, which it's a pretty direct competitor of - and that price is about 50%+ more expensive than the cheapest new cars on the Chinese market.

"Super cheap city commuting" is a bit of a busted flush - the Tata Nano tried to take that market on, at a tiny fraction of the price we're looking at here, and limped out of production in 2018 after a decade. The electric "super cheap city car" has been around as a concept since at least the Enfield 8000 in the 70s, via La Rochelle and AutoLib', G-Wiz etc etc. It's really just an update on the basic "transport for the people" idea that got Henry started with the Model T.

Except there's far better ways of doing urban transport than the private car, electric or not...

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

Indeed it won't. Nor does the Baojun E100/200, which it's a pretty direct competitor of - and that price is about 50%+ more expensive than the cheapest new cars on the Chinese market.

"Super cheap city commuting" is a bit of a busted flush - the Tata Nano tried to take that market on, at a tiny fraction of the price we're looking at here, and limped out of production in 2018 after a decade. The electric "super cheap city car" has been around as a concept since at least the Enfield 8000 in the 70s, via La Rochelle and AutoLib', G-Wiz etc etc. It's really just an update on the basic "transport for the people" idea that got Henry started with the Model T.

Except there's far better ways of doing urban transport than the private car, electric or not...

LoL :rotfl:

Herzlos

From memory, the Tata Nano was a motorbike engine on a car chasis, which made some sense for the Indian domestic market but was far too compromised for everyone else.


Small city cars have usually done pretty well. We're innundated with them these days, albeit nothing that's seriously bare bones or only capable of 30mph. The Toyota Aygo class is very much a tiny, cheap, city car, that's capable of going on the motorway if you're brave enough.



That Great Wall ORA-R1 is ugly as sin and probably a bit crap, but at ~ £7k new and a 140 mile range it'd make a perfect 2nd car for a lot of people. That thing could cover all of my local mileage (train station, shops) and leaving me the nice car for taking the kids out and longer runs.

AdrianC

Herzlos wrote: »

That Great Wall ORA-R1 is ugly as sin and probably a bit crap, but at ~ £7k new and a 140 mile range it'd make a perfect 2nd car for a lot of people.

But don't look at that price in a UK-market context. Look at it in a Chinese-market context.

It's really not that cheap there. There are other (electric) rivals at the same price already established, with similar ranges. There are larger petrol rivals for a fraction of the price.

And they aren't selling well, because they're not what the people with money want, and they're still way too expensive for the people without.

Martyn1981

Herzlos wrote: »

Small city cars have usually done pretty well. We're innundated with them these days, albeit nothing that's seriously bare bones or only capable of 30mph. The Toyota Aygo class is very much a tiny, cheap, city car, that's capable of going on the motorway if you're brave enough.

Exactly, only Adrian would argue that we don't want cheap BEV's - that's why I found his post so funny.

Also, as you spotted, his examples are ultra small vehicles, such as the 2 seater G-Wiz, whereas the ORA R1 is a four door car, so comparable to the extremely popular small city cars that sell very well.

I don't think his post/argument is genuine, just his need to argue the opposite of everything I (and others) post on the very interesting subject of EV's.

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

only Adrian would argue that we don't want cheap BEV's

Only you would deliberately misinterpret what I actually said as that.

Also, as you spotted, his examples are ultra small vehicles, such as the 2 seater G-Wiz, whereas the ORA R1 is a four door car, so comparable to the extremely popular small city cars that sell very well.

http://www.zotye.com/product/Cloud100S.htm
http://carsalesbase.com/china-car-sales-data/zotye/zotye-z100-ev/



[img][/img]

<counts> You're right! I can only see two doors in each of those photos...