Electric cars

Martyn1981

I heard about something like this, but through a reference to a reference to 'electric Swede'(?) so didn't say anything, but here is potentially some good news on Rapidgate.

[Ah! Quick skim of the article, I haven't read it, seems to mention said Swede.]

Nissan LEAF #Rapidgate Mostly Solved By Software Update?

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

but through a reference to a reference to 'electric Swede'(?)

Total side-thought from that... What IS happening with NEVS (the Chinese-owned attempt to resurrect Saab from bankruptcy)...? Anything? Have they gone under again?

https://www.nevs.com/en/faq/
Ah. First electric 9-3s (IC version launched in 2002, remember) are due to be delivered to Chinese customers "in 2019", as part of "mobility solutions" <rolls eyes> from their plant in China "which will be ready during 2018".

So not much, then.

AdrianC

RichardD1970 wrote: »

Not really risible, just ahead of it's time.

Take a small hatchback and make it "urban", which subsequently lots of companies have done and could be seen as the forerunner of the current SUV/crossover trend that everyone is jumping on.

As Gloom said, the Rancho started it - but the Streetwise's era, the early-mid 00s, were the height of the fad, with the C3 XTR, Polo Dune, Partner Escapade et al.

NigeWick

Martyn1981 wrote: »

but here is potentially some good news on Rapidgate.

I have to disagree. The coming 60kWh model will be air cooled like the van is now. Nissan appear to have lost the plot regarding battery temperature management.

Their vehicles will suit many people. But, for those of us who want a car that will do long journies with several rapid charges en route, Nissan are not the ones to buy.

The 64kWh Hyundai Kona will do a good 240 miles real world driving on a full charge. 80% down to 20% will offer 150 miles(ish). I would happily stop every 120-140 (2 hours) miles on motorways for a break and 20 - 30 minute charge

Martyn1981

NigeWick wrote: »

I have to disagree. The coming 60kWh model will be air cooled like the van is now. Nissan appear to have lost the plot regarding battery temperature management.

Their vehicles will suit many people. But, for those of us who want a car that will do long journies with several rapid charges en route, Nissan are not the ones to buy.

The 64kWh Hyundai Kona will do a good 240 miles real world driving on a full charge. 80% down to 20% will offer 150 miles(ish). I would happily stop every 120-140 (2 hours) miles on motorways for a break and 20 - 30 minute charge

Good points. I just saw the article, and thinking of you, thought I'd post it in case you hadn't already heard.

Has there been any progress regarding your complaint(?) on this issue?

Martyn1981

I think this has been mentioned before, but an article on the potential capacity gains for batts.

To Boost Lithium-Ion Battery Capacity by up to 70%, Add Silicon

Depending on the application, use of this anode material will boost battery capacity initially by about 20 percent and eventually by 40 percent or better. What’s more, explains Yushin, it allows the anode to be reduced in thickness by up to 67 percent, which in turn may permit the battery to be charged as much as nine times as fast. And it brings safety benefits as well, he claims, because it suppresses the formation of threadlike metallic dendrites, which can cause cells to short out internally and burst into flame.

Yushin says his company’s new anode material is composed of particles that are similar in size to the graphite ones being used in anodes now. But they contain silicon inside a porous scaffolding, which provides room for the silicon to expand and contract without coming into contact with the electrolyte. This allows batteries made with this silicon-rich anode material to perform well for 400 to 1,000 full charge-discharge cycles, which is more than enough for most applications. “Even for electric cars, you often don’t need more than 1,000 cycles,” says Yushin.

“We think our battery will be from 30 to 70 percent better, depending on the application,” says Lahiri. If so, or if Sila comes through with an anode that can similarly boost capacity by such double digits, it’ll really shake up the battery industry, where normally, as Lahiri quips, “people kill for 5 or 10 percent.”

ElefantEd

1000 charging cycles? I'm certain we've already far exceeded that in our 5 year old Leaf, most days charging twice, sometimes more, occasionally less. I'm rather hoping that it will last at least as long again. It has lost about 10% of the original capacity but is still going fine.

zeupater

ElefantEd wrote: »

1000 charging cycles? I'm certain we've already far exceeded that in our 5 year old Leaf, most days charging twice, sometimes more, occasionally less. I'm rather hoping that it will last at least as long again. It has lost about 10% of the original capacity but is still going fine.

Hi

It really depends on application & duty ... If you consider an EV traveling average milage with a realistic 300 mile range, then if charging around once a fortnight the lower end 400 full charge cycles would represent around 15 years of motoring covering approximately 120k miles, so as the available cycles increases there's a proportional increase in years/milage ... however, seeing that there are plenty of manufacturers claiming 3000 - 6000 charge cycle lifespans (within capacity loss constraints) the solution to capacity and charge rate does seem to resolve to a more fragile battery construction, possibly the anodes themselves.

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

ElefantEd wrote: »

1000 charging cycles? I'm certain we've already far exceeded that in our 5 year old Leaf, most days charging twice, sometimes more, occasionally less. I'm rather hoping that it will last at least as long again. It has lost about 10% of the original capacity but is still going fine.

I also thought it sounded a bit low, but it reminded me of numbers I've heard before for full charge-discharge cycles. I don't recall the discussion properly, but I do recall the numbers given that 400 cycles of a big Tesla at 300 miles is 120,000 miles ...... then something about second life of the batts.

I'm not an EV'er but I'm sure I've been told (possibly on this thread) that battery life is extended considerably if the bottom 10% and top 20% is avoided, and also that batts shouldn't be charged to 100% unless they'll be used immediately (well, soon) as sitting at 100% is not compatible with maximising life cycles?

Edit - Just pondering, but it also occurred to me that automotive batts might not be expected to last as many cycles as stationary batts since they are designed to deliver so much more 'punch'. EV's might ask for 50-100kW from the batts, something that is highly unlikely from a stationary batt of similar size.

Doesn't the 'ludicrous' mode function on the Tesla's warn that battery life will be impacted, suggesting that the higher acceleration (resulting from a higher discharge rate) is detrimental to the batts.

Martyn1981

The FT is suggesting we have reached peak ICE due to falling demand for cars overall and rising demand for EV's.

Combustion engine car sales to hit peak demand in 2018, say analysts

A cyclical peak in car sales is different from an all-time peak. What makes the present situation unique is that even if overall car sales pick up slightly in 2019 or 2020, electric cars are predicted to grow fast enough to shrink the portion of combustion engines sold.

Under Moody’s projections, global car sales will grow by 1.2 per cent in 2019 to 96.6m cars. Electrified vehicle sales are expected to grow by 1.5m units next year, according to AlixPartners, a consultancy. That would be 1.6 per cent of added market share next year — which implies the pie will shrink for combustion engines.!