Electric cars

Gloomendoom

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Been watching some reviews of the new Rivian pickup truck, which have been quite favourable, here's an article on it. Certainly a lot of truck, but for a lot of money. If they deliver on this, then the competition may be scared. Lots of storage space. Possible release in 2020.

The Ford F-150 range goes from $30k to $70k, whilst this PU starts at $70k.

Closer look at Rivian’s R1T all-electric pickup truck and why I ordered it

I've been looking at that too. Very impressive.

Unfortunately, way out of the price range of us mere mortals.

Martyn1981

I think this news was entirely predicted on here -

Tesco and VW plan free electric car charging points

Tesco, in partnership with Volkswagen, plans to install almost 2,500 charging bays at up to 600 stores by 2020.

A standard 7kW charger will be available for free, but drivers will have to pay for a faster service.

Customers will be able to leave their cars to charge while doing their shopping, which should give time for a "substantial" free charge, VW said.

So perhaps £1 worth of free leccy as an incentive to shop there, comparable to the petrol incentives.

Martyn1981

Articles like buses today.

Here's one on the comparison of BEV's to PHEV's to ICE's, but note it's based on only 180,000 km lifetime, and as the electricity sector gets 'cleaner' over time, so do EV's.

New Report On Electric Vehicles From A Life Cycle & Circular Economy Perspective

silverwhistle

Unfortunately I was abroad in 2011 and my tenant couldn't be trusted with expensive equipment. Installed within a month of my return in 2013.



The problem with EVs is that I don't buy new depreciating assets like cars, and the second hand market is not quite there yet, although momentum will certainly build over the next few years.

Martyn1981

Three quickie's, an interesting stat from this weeks Carbon Commentary newsletter:

4, Oil demand from buses. Interesting statistic from the International Energy Agency: electric buses will reduce oil demand by 230,000 barrels a day by the end of this year compared to 46,000 barrels from electric cars. (Together, this is about 0.3% of world oil demand).

An out loud thought about something Z posted months ago, that plug in hybrids have a place since they can displace lots of mileage, for short trips whilst consuming less batts. Took me a while to think of this, but is that a great option for plug-in fuel cell vehicles?


And a thought from a You tube article on range / range anxiety. The suggestion being we need to be able to add 200 miles of range in 15 mins, ideally, as at that point a sensible stop and leg stretch become comparable between an ICE and a BEV.

This led me to do some head maths, and that would only need a charge rate of 200kW (50kWh in 15 mins), which I then realised isn't that far away, Tesla are already at 120kW and will be launching their upgraded Superchargers soon.

So if 200 miles in 15mins is reasonable (I think it is), then we are pretty close already. Cool.

[Edit - just to be clear, I'm talking about faster charge rates, and BEV's able to charge at that rate, which hopefully we are now closing in on. M.]

silverwhistle

jeepjunkie wrote: »

My EV was a shade over £4k, less ££££ after disposal of previous shed through WBAC, so depreciation neither here nor there especially with fuel savings of ~£2k pa.


Second hand prices seem have firmed up a fair bit but if you have free charging then still a brilliant buy.


Cheers

You've probably mentioned it before but it's not a Zoe with leased battery, is it? As a car fine, but the monthly charge would be more than my spend on fuel.

If it's an early Leaf the range is not quite enough for my usage profile, although not far off. That's why the situation is interesting as more people are brought into the net as ranges and model types increase. Most of my driving would be fine, but it's when you have those regular journeys which are just too far, and where for one reason or another recharging would be a faff. When all sports clubs and council rec sports pitches have chargers I'd be fine for some of my awkward journeys! For my skiing holiday it'll be hiring or borrowing until I get a Kona..

Martyn1981

Martyn1981 wrote: »

And a thought from a You tube article on range / range anxiety. The suggestion being we need to be able to add 200 miles of range in 15 mins, ideally, as at that point a sensible stop and leg stretch become comparable between an ICE and a BEV.

This led me to do some head maths, and that would only need a charge rate of 200kW (50kWh in 15 mins), which I then realised isn't that far away, Tesla are already at 120kW and will be launching their upgraded Superchargers soon.

So if 200 miles in 15mins is reasonable (I think it is), then we are pretty close already. Cool.

[Edit - just to be clear, I'm talking about faster charge rates, and BEV's able to charge at that rate, which hopefully we are now closing in on. M.]

Just a quick and positive update. I watched Fully Charged's review of the Kona. They did a long road trip with a Leaf and I-Pace too, about 1,000 miles. The Kona 64kWh model was averaging a staggering 5.1 miles / kWh. Wow!

So, back to the 200 mile in 15mins scenario, that comes down to 40kWh and 160kW charge rate. Quite an improvement in a day.

Edit - I note that the 39kWh model is 150kg (9%) lighter, so possibly a tad more miles/kWh.

Stageshoot

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Just a quick and positive update. I watched Fully Charged's review of the Kona. They did a long road trip with a Leaf and I-Pace too, about 1,000 miles. The Kona 64kWh model was averaging a staggering 5.1 miles / kWh. Wow!

So, back to the 200 mile in 15mins scenario, that comes down to 40kWh and 160kW charge rate. Quite an improvement in a day.

Edit - I note that the 39kWh model is 150kg (9%) lighter, so possibly a tad more miles/kWh.

We have just done 12000 miles in our Kona (Purchased Sept 5th) and the lifetime average over twelve thousand miles has settled at 4.6 miles per kwh

Thats 75% motorway driving and 25% slow town driving

very happy with that as it gives 290ish on a charge.. We normally aim to do 260-270 and then recharge

Martyn1981

Here's an interesting suggestion. We may be only 5yrs away from a permanent oil price collapse.

This blog from the guys behind Tesla Time News breaks down the idea raised elsewhere.

The Impending Big Auto/Oil Implosion Explained | In Depth

The idea seems to make sense, but I can't work out if it's reasonable or not. But certainly a potential eye opener.

Martyn1981

Some bold predictions for batt prices, and only 7yrs away.

Envision Energy Says EV Battery Cell Costs Will Fall Below $50/kWh By 2025

At the Stanford Global Energy Forum last month, Lei Zhang, founder and CEO of Envision Energy, made an extraordinary pronouncement. He said the cost of manufacturing EV battery cells would fall below $100 per kWh by 2020 and would be less than $50 per kWh by 2025 according to Driving, a Canadian automotive news site.

The conventional wisdom is that when the price for EV battery cells falls below $100 per kWh, that is when electric cars will become price competitive with conventional cars and the EV revolution will go into hyperdrive. We can’t know for sure, but many industry observers believe Tesla is very near that threshold for the battery cells it manufactures at its Gigafactory 1 in Nevada, if it has not already crossed over it. In general terms, the current industry standard for EV battery cells is believed to be $145 per kWh. Battery pack prices are believed to be around $190 per kWh.

Not only would cheaper batteries give a jolt to EV sales, it would make it possible for auto manufacturers to actually make a decent profit on electric cars. Once that happens, they will have no more excuse for holding on to their dream of building cars with internal combustion engines the way a person who has fallen off a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean holds on to a life raft.