Electric cars

GunJack

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I don't think I'm missing the point you are trying to make at all.

Let me just check, you want to only compare the cost of purchase since the cost of ownership favours the EV and 'destroys' your argument, isn't that your point?

No, you still don't see what I'm on about....

I (like many people) buy my cars outright for circa £500 or less (the current one very substantially less) so NO monthly payments to take into consideration. Yes, it's cheap motoring but a car is essential not a nice-to-have. My current annual spend on fuel, tax, insurance is around £900. To make the EV work, it would have to be cheap enough to buy outright without borrowing anything before considering the ongoing running costs and how long the batteries last

It's the total cost of ownership (buying, fuel, tax, insurance and resale/scrap) that's important, so now can you see that having to pay £2000 to buy an old EV massively skews that equation, and that's before the inconvenience of range & charging points is even mentioned - I can do 450 miles after one 10-min stop for fuel in 2-3 weeks, no chance in even a very new & costly EV.

As I said earlier, I'm not against EVs but to become practical there needs to be massive improvements...

Martyn1981

GunJack wrote: »

No, you still don't see what I'm on about....

I can see exactly what you are on about, you want to direct focus on CAPEX, because OPEX favours EV's.

GunJack wrote: »

It's the total cost of ownership (buying, fuel, tax, insurance and resale/scrap) that's important,

Yep, and total cost of ownership favours EV's.

GunJack wrote: »

As I said earlier, I'm not against EVs but to become practical there needs to be massive improvements...

Yet new EV's are already cheaper than new ICE's when all costs are taken into account (PHEV''s are slightly more expensive than ICE's).

GunJack

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I can see exactly what you are on about, you want to direct focus on CAPEX, because OPEX favours EV's. no, that's just part of the total costs, at the moment it's by far the largest cost for EV



Yep, and total cost of ownership favours EV's.
No, it really doesn't.....


Yet new EV's are already cheaper than new ICE's when all costs are taken into account (PHEV''s are slightly more expensive than ICE's).

Your last point... we're not talking about "new" though, or at least I'm not and that seems to be where you get lost. I'm talking about "affordable" to buy in the first place. I buy and run cars with zero depreciation. Add this into the total cost of ownership, and currently EVs have no chance compared to my sub-£500 cars, it would just take too many years to recoup that initial outlay on pure pence per mile (fuel, ins, tax), even by your own calculations earlier it would take at least 10 years.. You seem to not want to take total ownership costs into account....

AnotherJoe

GunJack wrote: »

As I said earlier, I'm not against EVs but to become practical there needs to be massive improvements...

They certainly do for you.


They are practical right now for many others where circumstances are different. Including me.


(also depends what you mean by "practical". Is that code for "cheaper" or does it include range and driving habits?)

GunJack

AnotherJoe wrote: »

They certainly do for you.


They are practical right now for many others where circumstances are different. Including me.


(also depends what you mean by "practical". Is that code for "cheaper" or does it include range and driving habits?)

Yes, for me and many others

And yes I appreciate is is different for others

When one poster in particular can't see that it IS different for
different people and wants to make incorrect blanket statements and assumptions for all , that's when I have a problem - one size very rarely fits all

AnotherJoe

GunJack wrote: »

Yes, for me and many others

And yes I appreciate is is different for others

When one poster in particular can't see that it IS different for
different people and wants to make incorrect blanket statements and assumptions for all, that's when I have a problem - one size very rarely fits all

Well, if we are talking of blanket statements then;

GunJack wrote: »

As I said earlier, I'm not against EVs but to become practical there needs to be massive improvements...

Would count as one I suggest

AdrianC

Except 1900 wasn't the very start of cars - the first US car manufacturing company, Duryea, was founded in 1893. Oh, and horses were still in practical commercial use long after 1913, even in the US.

Martyn1981

GunJack wrote: »

Your last point... we're not talking about "new" though, or at least I'm not and that seems to be where you get lost. I'm talking about "affordable" to buy in the first place. I buy and run cars with zero depreciation. Add this into the total cost of ownership, and currently EVs have no chance compared to my sub-£500 cars, it would just take too many years to recoup that initial outlay on pure pence per mile (fuel, ins, tax), even by your own calculations earlier it would take at least 10 years.. You seem to not want to take total ownership costs into account....

It's strange that you started out trying to avoid the whole cost, but are now, trumplike, trying to spin the issue the other way around and accuse me of your failings, when all I have done is push the whole cost issue, despite your claims to the contrary.

Comparisons today, show that new EV's cost less to run than new ICE's when total ownership costs are taken into account.

Follow that down the price range as the EV's get cheaper, and the fuel efficiency and maintenance costs of ICE's rise (as they get older) and the same will apply, cost of running a 10yr old EV will be cheaper than the cost of running a 10yr old ICE.

Also bear in mind that it may well be possible to keep an EV running long after an ICE has become economically unrepairable, since a major cost item - engine, gearbox, exhaust, coolant - could well make maintenance and repair pointless, an issue you have previously admitted.

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

Except 1900 wasn't the very start of cars - the first US car manufacturing company, Duryea, was founded in 1893. Oh, and horses were still in practical commercial use long after 1913, even in the US.

And today isn't the start of EV's.

You seem to have trouble understanding the difference between when a technology hits disruption and when it's invented. PV was invented many many decades ago, but hit disruption this decade. EV's are looking like hitting the start of disruption in just a few years.

I suspect you are aware of this, but need to maintain denial as usual.

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

And today isn't the start of EV's.

I think you might need to remind yourself of who said what.