Electric cars

Herzlos

I've had cars where the tyres cost more than the car did.. gave pause for thought if I was better off buying a new car or tyres. I went for the new car.

Martyn1981

Some info and specs on the Kia Niro (lifetime battery warranty, nice):

Kia Niro Electric Now On Sale In Korea, Features Choice Of Battery Size

GunJack

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

Great, so how many miles does your spreadsheet tell you you've done? ... you must have it because you've mentioned your average mpg & it should really stack up with being able to travel "450 miles after one 10-min stop for fuel in 2-3 weeks" and achieve "61mpg averaged over all mileage in 11 months" ...

Seeing as you asked, back in the office so:-

Litres: 560.4
Galls : 123.44
Miles : 7540.5
MPG : 61.09
Cost : £670.00
Ave. Litre: £1.20

Fuel tank capacity is 45 litres, so range is upwards of 450 miles, so up to 3 weeks between fills as I work from home a couple of days in that 3-week period.

And my local Sainsbury's, Tesco and Asda garages are currently £1.269 per litre of diesel, the most expensive it's been since I got this car. £185 ins,£30 VED, so even allowing for another £60 fuel to get to the full year point, that's £945 for the year.

Real-life numbers for you (and the nett purchase cost was less than a week's fuel )

Stageshoot

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Just looking on ZapMap for potential charging points near our off-grid holiday place have seen several comments complaining that their Renault Zoe is giving the dreaded "charging not possible" message.

Anybody know more about this?

The Zoe does very stringent earth checks before starting to charge, the Zoe fails to start a charge on chargers other cars are fine with

The two at Meadowhall shopping Centre in Sheffield are like that, work with every other car but fail on the Zoe with a battery charging impossible message.

Its a pain when others can charge but nothing you can do to overcome it. In the several hundred different charging points I have used, I now know of 7 that wont work with the Zoe.

2 at Meadowhall Sheffield.
2 Rapids at Chalfont Richards M6 Services (Both North and South) but there are 22kw ones that work there
1 Rapid at The Belfry Nottingham

On the whole its great, but if you hit a bad charger not a lot you can do but move along and find another. Some people state that "Watering The Earth Rod" on seasonally tempremental chargers (If soil dries out around earth) does work but have not tried that!

GunJack

GunJack wrote: »

that's £945 for the year.

Looking at battery rentals from Renault (current, on their website) it would cost £840 minimum (for my mileage) just to lease a battery pack, never mind charging it, buying/leasing the car & insurance. I also found a Zoe on autotrader and got a quote via confused.com - cheapest was £295, so that's another £100 extra....

Stageshoot

GunJack wrote: »

Looking at battery rentals from Renault (current, on their website) it would cost £840 minimum (for my mileage) just to lease a battery pack, never mind charging it, buying/leasing the car & insurance. I also found a Zoe on autotrader and got a quote via confused.com - cheapest was £295, so that's another £100 extra....

Then dont lease the battery buy it instead, like any lease/finance the only person making money out of it is the finance company. (Some people seem to think they are charities, they certainly are not)...

The battery lease is nothing but a money maker for RCI... Buy the thing its cheaper

As for insurance, they must dislike you!!! ours is less than that for 2 drivers with full business use and 45k miles a year.

GunJack

Stageshoot wrote: »

Then dont lease the battery buy it instead, like any lease/finance the only person making money out of it is the finance company. (Some people seem to think they are charities, they certainly are not)...

The battery lease is nothing but a money maker for RCI... Buy the thing its cheaper

As for insurance, they must dislike you!!! ours is less than that for 2 drivers with full business use and 45k miles a year.

Can't find a price to just buy the battery separate from the car... even if I could, it'd be way more than the cost of my car, and that's part of the point...

The ins is £100 dearer than my current ICE...another part of the point....

zeupater

GunJack wrote: »

Can't find a price to just buy the battery separate from the car... even if I could, it'd be way more than the cost of my car, and that's part of the point...

The ins is £100 dearer than my current ICE...another part of the point....

Hi

So why are you comparing your almost fully depreciated car to a leasing or buying a new battery or leasing a new car with a new battery? ...

I'm pretty sure that everyone understands the point you're making, however we're not talking about history, it's what will happen in the not-too-distant future. The reason you can buy a used vehicle so cheaply is that there's a supply & demand imbalance - more cars out there than people queueing-up to buy & the reason that you can operate the old vehicle so cheaply is that the government allows you to! ...

... So, let's turn that on it's head ...

Sometime within the next decade it is extremely likely that the government will (as previously mentioned) start to encourage people to wean themselves off ICE vehicles (especially older ones which have the worst emissions) so expect VED to be a really easy lever to pull ... £30/year on tax on an engine which is both worn & rarely serviced - fine at the moment, but when that becomes £100, £200, £300 or upwards of £400/year there's a point at which people will start to take notice ...

Fuel duty?, great that's easy - for the last decade fuel duty indexation has been held back, but the crunch is that it's another lever to pull ... readdressing this in stages over a few years could add £1.50-£2/gallon and easily be targetted at non-commercial vehicles, adding in the region of £300/year to someone doing average mileage at an overall 40mpg ...

Okay, so the government have pulled the levers and revenue has increased by somewhere around (say)£12billion/year just on the measures mentioned above ... so, what about allocating 25% of that £12billion in a one year scrappage scheme aimed at the oldest cars on (say) a sliding scale of £500- £1000/car - the effect? .. probably somewhere around 4million vehicles taken out of the supply chain in a single hit, addressing the demand/supply imbalance & pushing the residual value of what remains up significantly ... next year, rinse, repeat & target some slightly newer units .... it's not hard to see this additional lever being pulled a few times before the economic argument for running older vehicles with high(er) average emissions fails.

Considering the global obligations for governments to reduce overall emissions, it's not really a case of if, but how & when ... the only certainty is that within not too many years there'll be very few ICE vehicles that will be as cheap & old as we see today, especially ones with larger capacity engines ...

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

GunJack wrote: »

Seeing as you asked, back in the office so:-

Litres: 560.4
Galls : 123.44
Miles : 7540.5
MPG : 61.09
Cost : £670.00
Ave. Litre: £1.20

Fuel tank capacity is 45 litres, so range is upwards of 450 miles, so up to 3 weeks between fills as I work from home a couple of days in that 3-week period.

And my local Sainsbury's, Tesco and Asda garages are currently £1.269 per litre of diesel, the most expensive it's been since I got this car. £185 ins,£30 VED, so even allowing for another £60 fuel to get to the full year point, that's £945 for the year.

Real-life numbers for you (and the nett purchase cost was less than a week's fuel )

So 7,540 miles at 4 miles per kWh and 7p/kWh = £132 pa, or a saving of ~£540pa. [Before considering the externality costs of CO2, NOx, pm2.5, etc emissions.]

BTW why would you want to buy or lease batts, we are talking about an older EV with its own batts, shirley.

But as always the arguments for bangernomics collapse if you take the argument to the extreme since you need someone to buy a new car to make an secondhand one available, and someone to buy the secondhand car to make an older car available. So the issue is irrelevant to new EV's, and is simply a matter for consideration when older and cheaper EV's are available ...... so long as all ownership costs are taken into account.

GunJack

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

So why are you comparing your almost fully depreciated car to a leasing or buying a new battery or leasing a new car with a new battery? ...

I'm pretty sure that everyone understands the point you're making, however we're not talking about history, it's what will happen in the not-too-distant future. The reason you can buy a used vehicle so cheaply is that there's a supply & demand imbalance - more cars out there than people queueing-up to buy & the reason that you can operate the old vehicle so cheaply is that the government allows you to! ...

... So, let's turn that on it's head ...

Sometime within the next decade it is extremely likely that the government will (as previously mentioned) start to encourage people to wean themselves off ICE vehicles (especially older ones which have the worst emissions) so expect VED to be a really easy lever to pull ... £30/year on tax on an engine which is both worn & rarely serviced - fine at the moment, but when that becomes £100, £200, £300 or upwards of £400/year there's a point at which people will start to take notice ...

Fuel duty?, great that's easy - for the last decade fuel duty indexation has been held back, but the crunch is that it's another lever to pull ... readdressing this in stages over a few years could add £1.50-£2/gallon and easily be targetted at non-commercial vehicles, adding in the region of £300/year to someone doing average mileage at an overall 40mpg ...

Okay, so the government have pulled the levers and revenue has increased by somewhere around (say)£12billion/year just on the measures mentioned above ... so, what about allocating 25% of that £12billion in a one year scrappage scheme aimed at the oldest cars on (say) a sliding scale of £500- £1000/car - the effect? .. probably somewhere around 4million vehicles taken out of the supply chain in a single hit, addressing the demand/supply imbalance & pushing the residual value of what remains up significantly ... next year, rinse, repeat & target some slightly newer units .... it's not hard to see this additional lever being pulled a few times before the economic argument for running older vehicles with high(er) average emissions fails.

Considering the global obligations for governments to reduce overall emissions, it's not really a case of if, but how & when ... the only certainty is that within not too many years there'll be very few ICE vehicles that will be as cheap & old as we see today, especially ones with larger capacity engines ...

HTH
Z

With respect, that is speculation. I'm talking here and now.