Electric cars

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Not even an I.D Buzz with the seats stripped out?

Ah, yes. I'd forgotten about that particular iteration of the retro concept.

They never stop going on about it, like all the EV concepts they've been promoting for years and years, and may even build eventually.

TBF, the market's hardly encouraging them by buying the ones they do offer. e-Up! and e-Golf sales have been minimal.

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

TBF, the market's hardly encouraging them by buying the ones they do offer. e-Up! and e-Golf sales have been minimal.

Maybe the cars aren't good enough - certainly no shortage of demand from Europe for the Tesla 3.

Martyn1981

OK, I admit this is kind of obvious, but I hadn't really thought about it before - Tesla is now as 'big' as Jaguar and Porsche (ish), so issues over ramping up production, especially for Jaguar with the I-Pace, could be similar to what Tesla have faced regarding the scale of investment and spending.

Given the great reviews for the I-Pace, I hope they do sell a lot. Momentum for EV's is now there especially in the luxury segments, roll on the EV revolution.

Tesla Production Now Approximately Twice As High As Jaguar Production

Furthermore, if Jaguar decides to leap in and ramp up production rapidly to match demand, it has the same “problem” Tesla has — it needs a lot of cash to invest into the factories, machinery, and supplies necessary for dramatic production and sales growth. It seems like the logical thing to do, but Tesla’s case demonstrates how much certain stock market players and the media could try to pummel Jaguar for doing something so awful as going in the red to skyrocket production investments and growth.

If Jaguar isn’t prepared to compete with Tesla, and if Tesla may even pass up Porsche in terms of annual production and sales, who are the big boys that are about to come and eat Tesla’s lunch? Presumably, we’re now talking about BMW, Volkswagen, Daimler, and the like? If one or more of those companies come out with “their own Tesla Model 3,” will they have production capacity to meet even half of consumer demand? Will they have the batteries they need? Will sales of their gas and diesel cars tank, causing the companies more financial harm than they are prepared to withstand?

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

OK, I admit this is kind of obvious, but I hadn't really thought about it before - Tesla is now as 'big' as Jaguar and Porsche (ish)

Some wonky logic going on there...

Tesla Production Now Approximately Twice As High As Jaguar Production

Jaguar built 140k cars last year. That's true.

Except they're a brand of Jaguar Land Rover, which built 620,000 cars globally last year, 530k of them in the UK, and is just opening a new Slovak plant with ultimate capacity of 300k cars annually.

As for Porsche, let's not forget they're a brand of VAG, which shifted 10.7m vehicles last year...

RichardD1970

Don't think JLR will have a problem,

https://www.autovistagroup.com/news-and-insights/jlr-and-uk-government-announce-national-ev-battery-hub-plans

They also have the facilities, expertise, knowledge and experience of having built cars for 70 years to know exactly what they are doing and what they need to do to launch new products and ramp up production.

Tesla started from scratch, no mean feat admittedly, but they would have had to overcome a lot of problems that established players just won't have to face.

AdrianC

RichardD1970 wrote: »

Tesla started from scratch, no mean feat admittedly, but they would have had to overcome a lot of problems that established players just won't have to face.

Not really "from scratch". Their main assembly plant was previously a GM/Toyota joint-venture factory, which had been producing up to 450k cars/year.

Martyn1981

RichardD1970 wrote: »

Don't think JLR will have a problem,

https://www.autovistagroup.com/news-and-insights/jlr-and-uk-government-announce-national-ev-battery-hub-plans

They also have the facilities, expertise, knowledge and experience of having built cars for 70 years to know exactly what they are doing and what they need to do to launch new products and ramp up production.

Tesla started from scratch, no mean feat admittedly, but they would have had to overcome a lot of problems that established players just won't have to face.

GM have been around for 110 years but the Bolt production is low and they lose money on each car sold.

I think it's important to remember that EV's and ICE's are very different animals, and the 'old guard' are almost starting from scratch, and in many instances, doing so reluctantly, and against the wishes of their dealership franchisee's.

almillar

TBF, the market's hardly encouraging them by buying the ones they do offer. e-Up! and e-Golf sales have been minimal.

Last time I checked the e-Up! is twice the price of the petrol one. e-Golf seems decent, but dealers don't WANT to sell them to customers. They stopped sell the GTE because the waiting list was so long I believe.

There are reasons that VW aren't selling cars, and it's not 'lack of demand for EVs', it's lack of demand for overpriced cars. They'll stick with their line though, until they have a range of cars they can make and sell profitably. Like Merc and Audi, they're doing the EV PR, but don't actually have much in the way of cars to sell.


Saw an iPace at the dealership in the flesh for the first time - it's surprisingly low for an SUV, and simply not as big as people expect. I certainly think people should stop comparing it to a Tesla Model X. That's huge, let's say, BMW X5 sized, with 7 seat option - iPace is X1 or X3 at a push, sized. The only thing it has in common with the Model X is electric SUV.

NBLondon

almillar wrote: »

Saw an iPace at the dealership in the flesh for the first time - it's surprisingly low for an SUV, and simply not as big as people expect.

That's surprising... I assumed it would be the same size as the E-Pace.

RichardD1970

Martyn1981 wrote: »

GM have been around for 110 years but the Bolt production is low and they lose money on each car sold.

I think it's important to remember that EV's and ICE's are very different animals, and the 'old guard' are almost starting from scratch, and in many instances, doing so reluctantly, and against the wishes of their dealership franchisee's.

Not really in terms of manufacture. The actual building of the car will be pretty much the same. Pressings, BIW, Paint and final assembly/trim will be almost identical. With only the powertrain being different.

Infact EVs will be easier due to not having a whopping big ICE, gearbox, transmission etc to fit in.