Electric cars

rtho782

Uxb wrote: »

The state of the public chargers - let alone their availability is going to have to improve considerably.

I look ever now and then at the Zap map
Some charging facilities seem no more than some sort of virtue signal by the provider claiming how green they are.

Charging stations which are supposedly available but in reality are not, only open in office hours, only available to customers etc.
There is one single one in my local town
It has 580 comments under it from users - and as we know its mostly the outraged and dissatisfied that post review comments: in this case its various non functionalities continuing for weeks at a time.

If you have a charger at home it's all moot.

I charge mine at home every night. I don't give a hoot about nearby public chargers. When I go shopping I will use them just because they are there and are free and generally give me a nice spot near the shop.

When I go long distance, I've never been unable to rapid charge at ikea/nissan/motorway services.

Herzlos

almillar wrote: »

You could apply this to ICE cars too. But as above, it's about cost to repair vs going and buying another car. Why would an interior, spring, wishbone, anti roll bar, last any longer in an electric car than an ICE?

I'm assuming the unecomonical repair bar is a lot higher with an ICE - It's not worth replacing the interior if the engine is on it's last legs as the engine replacement will write off the car.

With an EV, the motor is much more reliable, will last longer and will be cheaper to replace, so the car will likely need to be a lot older before it's not worth replacing interiors.

The battery may still kill it off, but they seem to be coming with service plans and can be refurbed fairly easily. I'd assume that when they hit mass market you'll be able to buy 3rd party/OEM battery packs that will be drop in replacements with 2/3x the capacity by the time your original one fails.

Gloomendoom

Andy_L wrote: »

That's about 10x the number of cars in England and we have 300 fires per day

Around 65% of these 300 fires are started deliberately to cover criminal activity.

Source

almillar

If you have a charger at home it's all moot.

It absolutely isn't, if you're on a long journey!

I'm assuming the uneconomical repair bar is a lot higher with an ICE - It's not worth replacing the interior if the engine is on it's last legs as the engine replacement will write off the car.

Again, it works vice-versa. If the electric motor, or battery, is on its last legs, it will wouldn't be worth replacing the interior either.

I would agree that it could be argued that there's more that can go wrong in an ICE car, that there are more points of failure. In the future we may be able to show that electric cars do go further, but so much of the car is actually the same as an ICE car, that those failures will still happen. And there are added, expensive parts which can also go wrong. You say the bar is a lot higher - I think 'may be a bit' is the best we can say at the moment. The SpeakEV forums are a good source for the costs of some of the big bits under the bonnet of electric cars.

Martyn1981

almillar wrote: »

It absolutely isn't, if you're on a long journey!



Again, it works vice-versa. If the electric motor, or battery, is on its last legs, it will wouldn't be worth replacing the interior either.

I would agree that it could be argued that there's more that can go wrong in an ICE car, that there are more points of failure. In the future we may be able to show that electric cars do go further, but so much of the car is actually the same as an ICE car, that those failures will still happen. And there are added, expensive parts which can also go wrong. You say the bar is a lot higher - I think 'may be a bit' is the best we can say at the moment. The SpeakEV forums are a good source for the costs of some of the big bits under the bonnet of electric cars.

The motor pack (motor, inverter etc) is far simpler and cheaper and presumably easier to replace than an ICE engine and gearbox.

The motors should last very long, that's what electric motors do.

The battery pack is different, that can be compared more closely to fuel costs for an ICE, as the expensive batt pack allows the EV to run on cheap leccy, v's a cheap fuel tank allowing an ICE to run on expensive petrol/diesel. So it's almost a down-payment/investment.

Also, evidence so far, from the Tesla's is that the batts are good for many 100's of thousands of miles, showing around a 6% loss of capacity over 200,000 miles or so.

Also, that's a 6% loss of capacity, not efficiency, so it's now just an EV equal to a 'new' EV with a slightly smaller batt pack (not an EV with an inefficient batt pack). This could even be factored in at purchase by going for a slightly larger battery pack option. This is something suggested to those considering a home battery pack, where they should size the pack appropriately for the second decade of use, not the first.

rtho782

almillar wrote: »

It absolutely isn't, if you're on a long journey!

Very very few of my journeys exceed the ~120m real world range of my 30kW leaf.

Of those that so (in round trip terms) 95% of them are going to Costco and Ikea at lakeside, where I charge for free at the rapid at Ikea. There are about 3 other rapids (although not free) in a 5 mile radius of that one as backup.

The other 5% of journeys we take my partner's diesel car for, because we are too lazy to use the rapids at services, but when her lease is up she will get an EV too and we will just hire a car for the weekend.

NigeWick

Uxb wrote: »

Some charging facilities seem no more than some sort of virtue signal by the provider claiming how green they are.

Government has offered money to put in chargers so companies, councils and etc are installing them and not making sure they are actually available for EVs to charge at them.

Ecotricity has got motorways covered and now Polar are shoving them in Holiday Inns as well as other locations. I use the one at Abingdon Waitrose and the Ace roundabout by the A3 Chessington. Shell & BP are starting to put rapids on their forecourts. Lidl and some other outlets are starting to put rapid chargers in. I also know that some Sainsbugs supermarkets have 7kW chargers too.

Still a long way to go but I think we're starting to get the infrastructure needed for a more rapid takeup of BEVs. But, Ecotricity do need more rapid chargers on the motorway system to keep up as I have had to wait at Mimms, Ferrybridge and Scotch Corner for vehicles to finish charging and vacate the charger point.

Martyn1981

A study on autonomous EV's for New York concluded that smaller batts were better. that sort of fits in with what the EV'ers on here said about finding a suitable battery size, rather than always aiming for bigger and bigger.

Best Way To Slash Urban Emissions & Energy Usage? Autonomous Electric Taxis Are The Answer


Edit - and I know where they could find 300,00 test vehicles, though the EV conversion cost might be too high:-

What Will Volkswagen Do With The 300,000+ Diesel Cars It Has Repurchased In America?

Martyn1981

This is a fun article. PSA, who haven't supported the EV idea, are now complaining that the sneaky Chinese (who have) might take market share by supplying cars that PSA doesn't build.

Perhaps PSA should stop complaining and build a load of EV's then?

PSA Group CEO Says Proposed 2020 CO2 Fines In Europe Would Create “Chinese Trojan Horse”

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

PSA, who haven't supported the EV idea

Yes, they have.


PSA have been building electric cars since the 1980s, and had them in showrooms for Joe Public to buy, in the 90s. They currently have three different electric cars and an electric van in the range, and have committed to 40 electric models in the range by 2025, with every single model from all four brands available electrified.