From debt to freedom...

Humdinger1

Shopping from the greenhouse! A whole new chapter!!  Interesting re your son...so good that your daughter swung on on a rope there.  I agree that he's grappling with different attitudes at yours and his dad's; you will probably see some big steps forward now in attitude and behaviour.  Do you think he's wanting to move back in with you? What would your feeling be? I hope you don't mind me asking.   Keep going, you are fab love Humdinger xx

Bluegreen143

So am I right in understanding that your ex is expecting keep from a 16 year who is still in education? That’s really appalling in my book. Yes, I think adult children ought to pay keep (and you’ve been very generous with your older kids I think as you could have asked for more). But asking for keep from a 16 year old… he’s a child, not a roommate! 

Honeysucklelou2

Thank you Humdinger and Bluegreen143.

Humdinger - I did make it clear to DS2 that he is welcome to come back. It is a little more complicated now though as DS2’s girlfriend moved into the ex’s 2 months after DS, so they are in effect living together under his roof. I have reservations about such an intensity of relationship at so young an age which is another issue again, but on a practical level I can accommodate DS but the combination of rooms and genders of the other children at home  means I don’t have enough bedrooms to facilitate the kind of situation they have there.

Bluegreen143 - Yes your understanding is correct and I too am appalled. I have tried to think of ways I can help such as getting one of those student /parents cards from Mr T’s so that DS2 and gf can purchase food and be seen to be contributing but haven’t done anything about it yet...I really can’t  afford to do much. I try to help by paying for the phone contact.

Today has been a positive day at work. I start a course this week that will take me about a year to complete but hopefully will be a step forward career wise. 

Cherryfudge

My instinct would be to try to help too, but I'm not sure contributing financially is fair to anyone, least of all you. Has it come about because your ex doesn't want to support the girlfriend as well as your son?

When I think about it, it's a complete reversal of what should be going on: your ex should be contributing to the welfare of all the children, not deriving an income from one of them. It may be worth mentioning to your solicitor: surely it's financial abuse?

The course seems a good idea! I hope you enjoy it!

Bluegreen143

It is difficult because why should you contribute to your ex running his household?

I think keeping your doors open to your son is a good plan (but not his girlfriend as I agree I wouldn’t be that happy with that situation at his age, plus you have enough children of your own to support without taking on someone else’s daughter!). If your son is choosing to live as an adult (with a partner) in a place where he has to pay keep, when he has the option to come home to you, that is really on him and it’s not your job to fund your ex! But I do think it’s awful of your ex and can see why you’d like to help if you could.

If your ex objects to funding your DS’s girlfriend (reasonable) he shouldn’t have allowed her to move in in the first place.

janb5

Hi HSL- forgetting all the ramifications at the moment I think it is so positive that you have had a long conversation with DS2 and maybe the flareup a few days ago was the result of what is happening at the Ex`s? 
I agree with Cherryfudge  about raising it with your solicitor..
I think DS2 will value your consistency and steadfastness particulalrly when this isn`t matched in his current home.  I also agree he is way too young to sustain a live in relationship with GF but maybe she has put pressure on him as well?  Sending a virtual hug to you

P.S..I don`t think you need to offer money to the equation  at all.

warby68

What about having DS2 and girlfriend for a meal once or twice a week?

This would be a contribution but only a relatively small cost/effort to you as you cook for numbers already. It would also hopefully help to keep the communication lines open.

Just to play devil's advocate the demand for board from ex may be a reflection of DS2 trying to live as an adult before his time. It shouldn't have got to that as the answer to her moving in should have been no or with ground rules from the off but I can sort of see the logic of trying to unwind the situation by applying  this kind of pressure. I'm amazed to be sort of sticking up for ex and of course could be totally wrong if ex wanted money well before the girlfriend moved in. 

You most certainly should not pay anything though and your head must be spinning with all the new challenges thrown your way.

Drawingaline

Great you have the lines of communication open with ds2 again. I am a little with Warby on this. He is choosing to live an adult relationship, then he needs to act like an adult financially. However this should have been spelt out right from the start. 'yes she can move in, however I expect you to take on the responsibility and provide rent/keep from a part time wage while still at school/college. Do you still want her to move in?' But I think I am seen as quite mean financially by my teens friends (I charge them to take and pick them up from work. Like £1 a trip, but not doing it for free!)

Definitely underline that there will always be room for him at your house, but unfortunately due to the number of people you couldn't accommodate the gf. 

I always find it concerning when 16yr olds want to move out, and it would need to be a pretty big reason to allow one of my teens partners to move in. Although seeing as they both seem happy to never leave their rooms to socialise the chances of them having a partner anytime soon is minimal 🙄😂

I like the idea of having them over for dinner a couple of times a week. Gives you chance to get to know the gf too.

Honeysucklelou2

Thank you Cherryfudge, Bluegreen143, Janb5, Warby68 & DAL.

It is a tricky situation and one I don’t feel I have any bearing on other than to remind DS2 that he is able to come back. It is a good idea regarding meals. I have spoken to DS2 before about coming round for a meal in the same way that the children here have a meal with the ex once a week. Unfortunately with working 2-3 evenings a week, the only evenings I have free tend to be the weekend ones that they want to see their friends. I will keep inviting though. His gf is lovely and gets on very well with the DDs. Over Christmas they popped over quite a bit which was good.

DAL - that kind of conversation would have been good to set the ground rules.

Warby - DS mentioned that he started paying in August which was a good few weeks before the gf moved in 😒.

Busy day at work but got outside for an hour which was refreshing. Got home and one of the younger ones managed to leave the tap running in the wash basin and it’s ended up flooding the floor. A combination of mopping and old towels has got up most of the water. For some reason the overflow hole didn’t work so looks like another maintenance job to add to the list😒.

Off to work now for a couple of hours...

Drawingaline

Ah, paying at 16 before gf moved in? No!!! My 17&16yr olds work, and while I charge them petrol money for work trips, I absolutely don't take any money off them. I do, however, expect them to fund their lifestyle. So bus fares, clothes (bar essentials) vinyl (DD is addicted to buying records!) Concert tickets etc. And non essential food, so if we go to the shops FOr food and the girl wants ice cream, she pays herself. 

Will you be funding his driving lessons? We do pay for those. 

He sounds like a lovely boy who will realise what is going on at some point. The fact that he is able to open up to you is great. He will either keep up the relationship with his father as it is, or he will finally see it through adult eyes and may change how he interacts with him.

The fact that most of your kids are open to having a relationship with their dad is credit to you. And much as he seems to have huge failings as a partner and a father it does need to be the kids decision to how that relationship pans out into adulthood.

Sending internet hugs 🤗