Alleged speeding NIP advise please

MB69

Hello

I have a bit of a problem.

Last month me and my partner hired a car to go down south for the day as my normal car had broken down.

On the way back, it seems we had been caught breaking the variable speed limits on the motorway.

I received the NIP, but the issue I have is that there was 2 of us driving back up. The inicident happened at 21:30 at night and neither of us remember seeing any camera flashes on the motorway.

The location of the incident is not very clear in the NIP and it happened near a service station ( or I think it did as the location on the NIP is not very clear).

I wrote to the said force and explained the situation, and nominated both myself and my partner as the only 2 drivers for the time of the alleged offence. However as the inidident was near a service station, we couldn't be sure who was driving. So I asked if they could clarify the location of the inicident so that we can narrow down the driver.

I have also written a letter to the GM at the said service station to see if I can obtain photo from their ANPR system to see who was driving in and who was driving out.

However the said police force have taken my letter as nominating my partner and have now sent a second NIP addressed to her. I never said in my letter that she was definitely the driver, but she was one of the possible 2 drivers. I gave them my full details, including DoB and licence number. Same for my partner.

Why have they sent her a NIP and not confirmed the location to me?

What do I need to do? Does she need to write back to them telling them the same thing? Can they issue a NIP in her name without being officially nominated under the S172?

My dilema is:

1) the speed in question, was just above the threshold of the speed limit ( 10% + 2) . So have been offered the SAC. But who should take the course? at the moment the NIP is in my partners name. But it is a bit unfair for her to take it if indeed it was me driving the car? and vice versa! She says she can't be asked with all the hassle and we should take the course. However we all know what happened to Neil Hamilton! if the photo indeed shows me driving and she says she was the driver, then we could both get done for perverting?

2) given the details, we can't be 100% sure who the driver was unless the said force confirms the location of the camera, which they are refusing to do. Can they do that ? Knowing that the location is vague! If it was only one person driving then yes, but as there was 2 of us, then I don't know what to do?

I don't want to get done for failing to provide the details under S172 and get 6 pts.

We are still waiting from the service station with photos.
Apart from waiting now, until either person come back to us, I am not sure what else I can do to try and confirm the driver?

Any help appreciated.

I have also heard about Pepipoo forums? But I have tried to register on there, to no avail. I can't get any activation email to my yahoo account for some reason!

Thanks in advance.

Nasqueron

If it's the average speed check ones (big yellow ones) I don't think they flash like a GATSO

Can't you use google street view as a quick and dirty way of establishing where the camera was assuming it wasn't in roadworks?

facade

Nariman wrote: »

Hello

However we all know what happened to Neil Hamilton! if the photo indeed shows me driving and she says she was the driver, then we could both get done for perverting?


I don't want to get done for failing to provide the details under S172 and get 6 pts.

You have dropped your partner in it, as by suggesting that either of you could be driving they have simply sent her an S172.
If she doesn't unequivocally name the driver then both of you will be done for failing to respond to the S172, which carries 6 points and an offence code that insurers do not like. (You failed to unequivocally name the driver anyway).

The best course of action is for her to name the most likely driver, and that person take the SAC. (If it is you, you will get another S172, and this time you accept it- however, there is a time limit for the course, and all the too-ing and fro-ing may mean one won't be offered)

It only becomes perverting the course of justice if you knowingly name a false driver so as to obtain some advantage. An honest mistake or a "best guess" based on the time would not be so.

dannyrst

Just let her take the course. If they haven't got a photo showing your face to determine who was driving, they aren't exactly going to go looking for one.

Car_54

Nariman wrote: »

the speed in question, was just above the threshold of the speed limit ( 10% + 2) . So have been offered the SAC. But who should take the course? at the moment the NIP is in my partners name. But it is a bit unfair for her to take it if indeed it was me driving the car? and vice versa! She says she can't be asked with all the hassle and we should take the course. However we all know what happened to Neil Hamilton! if the photo indeed shows me driving and she says she was the driver, then we could both get done for perverting?

I have also heard about Pepipoo forums? But I have tried to register on there, to no avail. I can't get any activation email to my yahoo account for some reason!

Thanks in advance.

Neil Hamilton and his wife were actually acquitted, but the courts are less charitable nowadays. Are you thinking of Chris Huhne?

You should be able to register directly on Pepipoo rather than going through Yahoo.

GTE_Boy

Car_54 wrote: »

Neil Hamilton and his wife were actually acquitted, but the courts are less charitable nowadays. Are you thinking of Chris Huhne?

You should be able to register directly on Pepipoo rather than going through Yahoo.

I don't think it likes his email address.

GingerBob_3

Reminds me of the latest high profile case of perverting the course of justice regarding this issue: Michael Howard and his wife genuinely couldn't work out who was driving but I think he was hit with six points anyway.

redpete

Nariman wrote: »

She says she can't be asked with all the hassle ...

The phrase is "can't be arsed" (or 'bottomed' if this fails the MSE filter).

EssexExile

Nariman wrote: »

However as the inidident was near a service station, we couldn't be sure who was driving

From that I assumed the problem was that you knew who drove to the services & who drove from them, but you didn't know where the offence took place, before or after the services.

I have also written a letter to the GM at the said service station to see if I can obtain photo from their ANPR system to see who was driving in and who was driving out.

But from that it seems that you are saying you can't remember who was driving when.

waamo

What location does the NIP say? It might be possible to narrow it down a bit if we knew what it said.

MB69

Hi

Thanks for all the messages.

In answer to the questions:

1) We are relatively sure who drove in to the services and who drove out. But wanted to make sure just in case the force came back to us and said where the location of the offence was.

2) The location is M1 Northbound Tibshelf. So one assumes it is around the Tibshelf services? But who knows!

3) It is not the roadworks camera but a 'Variable Speed Limit' camera. So I assume these are the ones on the gantries ?

4) Offence took place at 09:30pm. Why the speed limit of 50mph, I don't know neither can I remember tbh if we ever noticed it. We are both pretty good when it comes to reduced speed limits on the motorways due to either roadworks or other issues.

5) I haven't dumped anyone in it as far as I can see? They sent me a S172, and by the location in the NIP, I can't be certain to name the driver. So I have done all in my power to provide the driver name, and supplied them with the 2 people who had use of the car on the day. Unless they can tell me if the incident happened before or after the services, I can't tell them if it was me or the mrs.

I will wait to see if we get any further response from either the force or the GM at Tibshelf services. If I don't get anything from him by first week in January, then I will follow that up with another letter.

What I don't understand is why they have issued a S172 to my partner as I haven't told them it was deffinitely her who drove the car. She will be sending back the same letter as the one I sent to them and ask for more information. If the force decides to be ignorant about it, then I will have no choice but to go to court I guess to defend it under S172.4 that I have done all I could to narrow it down to the 2 possible drivers. But without knowing the location of the offence, it is not possible for me to name the driver.


Why is it that the force are not providing this information having been requested them? They can't say they haven't received the letter, as they have issued a second NIP to my partner which was all part of the same letter!

It seems to be that they want to get money out of people regardless of how they get it? It is one rule for them and one rule for everyone else?