Alleged speeding NIP advise please

MB69

I am hoping they are going to pick my partner up as the driver and send her the NIP/CoFP/SAC course.

IF the above is correct and there is no cameras BEFORE the services, then we might plead NG to the offence and take it to the mags and prove that the offence had happened AFTER the services and she wasn't the driver. Force had made a mistake/didn't want to do any work and sent the fine to the wrong person.

But we might just pay the fine and get the 3pts and forget about the whole thing as neither of us want to really go all the way down to Derby for a stupid SAC course and sit infront of bunch of little kids and be judged and shown videos of horrific consequence of the speeding and ...

We are both over 45 yrs old, both member of the IAM and have got more than 10 yrs NCB. Don't need a lecture from some idiot that our speed of 58mph at 09:30pm could have killed someone specially as neither of us really remembers going through any roadworks or incidents.

It is a corrupt system with an easy income. I guess it is coming near Christmas and they need their Christmas bonus!

GingerBob_3

You can usually take the course locally at a choice of venues. To be honest I'd go for it. I went on one in January, and once they've told you not to make racist or sexist remarks (idiots) and drummed it into you that if you don't co-operate they'll throw you out, it's okay. The big thing is you don't have to mention it to your insurance company (Admiral excepted - so don't insure with them) and you won't get any points. It draws a line under the whole episode.

Robisere

MB69 wrote: »

I am hoping they are going to pick my partner up as the driver and send her the NIP/CoFP/SAC course.

IF the above is correct and there is no cameras BEFORE the services, then we might plead NG to the offence and take it to the mags and prove that the offence had happened AFTER the services and she wasn't the driver. Force had made a mistake/didn't want to do any work and sent the fine to the wrong person.

But we might just pay the fine and get the 3pts and forget about the whole thing as neither of us want to really go all the way down to Derby for a stupid SAC course and sit infront of bunch of little kids and be judged and shown videos of horrific consequence of the speeding and ...

We are both over 45 yrs old, both member of the IAM and have got more than 10 yrs NCB. Don't need a lecture from some idiot that our speed of 58mph at 09:30pm could have killed someone specially as neither of us really remembers going through any roadworks or incidents.

It is a corrupt system with an easy income. I guess it is coming near Christmas and they need their Christmas bonus!

If one of you actually attends the course, I would advise losing that attitude before you walk in. I had to take the course myself 6 years ago. One driver turned up in a large expensive car, matched by his large attitude to the officials there. He was slapped down, sent home and informed that he would receive a large fine and 6 points. I am not even certain about the response you will receive to your last letter. It simply does not pay to offend the system minions: unfair, but true.

I hope you get the least harmful result.

facade

MB69 wrote: »

A response has now been sent back to the said force, and nominated me as the driver if the offence happened after the services and herself if it was before.

We shall see what they say as this is most we can do without their help. At least we have named the drivers with the exact locations. If the force doesn't accept that, then it will be an expensive day in front of the elderly before taking it to the crown.

You still haven't named a single driver.
And then if they somehow accept the "wrong" one you are going to base a defence on the locus being so vague that you were disadvantaged into naming the wrong driver.

Do let us know how you get on, I hope for your sake I'm wrong, but I can see this turning out badly.

GingerBob_3

Robisere wrote: »

If one of you actually attends the course, I would advise losing that attitude before you walk in. I had to take the course myself 6 years ago. One driver turned up in a large expensive car, matched by his large attitude to the officials there. He was slapped down, sent home and informed that he would receive a large fine and 6 points. I am not even certain about the response you will receive to your last letter. It simply does not pay to offend the system minions: unfair, but true.

I hope you get the least harmful result.

Why? Does non-attendance, for this is what it would be deemed, accrue such a punishment? I thought it would be a case of the fine and three points that would have been the original sanction, together with losing the cost of the course.

GTE_Boy

MB69 wrote: »

I am hoping they are going to pick my partner up as the driver and send her the NIP/CoFP/SAC course.

IF the above is correct and there is no cameras BEFORE the services, then we might plead NG to the offence and take it to the mags and prove that the offence had happened AFTER the services and she wasn't the driver. Force had made a mistake/didn't want to do any work and sent the fine to the wrong person.

But we might just pay the fine and get the 3pts and forget about the whole thing as neither of us want to really go all the way down to Derby for a stupid SAC course and sit infront of bunch of little kids and be judged and shown videos of horrific consequence of the speeding and ...

We are both over 45 yrs old, both member of the IAM and have got more than 10 yrs NCB. Don't need a lecture from some idiot that our speed of 58mph at 09:30pm could have killed someone specially as neither of us really remembers going through any roadworks or incidents.

It is a corrupt system with an easy income. I guess it is coming near Christmas and they need their Christmas bonus!

I find that hard to believe from your attitude.

Head_The_Ball

MB69 wrote: »

...neither of us want to really go all the way down to Derby for a stupid SAC course and sit infront of bunch of little kids and be judged and shown videos of horrific consequence of the speeding and ...

We are both over 45 yrs old, both member of the IAM and have got more than 10 yrs NCB. Don't need a lecture from some idiot that our speed of 58mph at 09:30pm could have killed someone specially as neither of us really remembers going through any roadworks or incidents.

It is a corrupt system with an easy income. I guess it is coming near Christmas and they need their Christmas bonus!

The SAC course I attended was nothing like you describe.

I was there for exceeding a 50 mph limit in M5 roadworks

The two people running it were middle aged with a very friendly, approachable and positive attitude.

We were a mixed group of all ages, professions etc. Nobody was obstructive or negative.

I enjoyed the course and I took some positives and no negatives from it.

I never felt I was being lectured or treated in anything other than a respectful and professional manner.

My advice is to lose the negative attitude, take it on the chin and attend the course with a positive attitude.

You have to attend so you might as well try to enjoy it.

You might learn something.

lister

facade wrote: »

You still haven't named a single driver.
And then if they somehow accept the "wrong" one you are going to base a defence on the locus being so vague that you were disadvantaged into naming the wrong driver.

Do let us know how you get on, I hope for your sake I'm wrong, but I can see this turning out badly.

Well the good news for the OP's partner is that she has complied fully with her obligations in my view.

Section 172 2b of the RTA 1988
- any other person shall if required as stated above give any information which it is in his power to give and may lead to identification of the driver.

Then danger is though that they decide the OP didn't meet their slightly enhanced requirements and pursue them for failure to furnish.
i.e. Section 172 2a - the person keeping the vehicle shall give such information as to the identity of the driver as he may be required to give by or on behalf of a chief officer of police

I would hope that any sensible ticket office would simply do a basic check and pursue the person they can now identify as driving for the original speeding offence. Given bureaucracy, it is hope rather than expectation, however - but sometimes you get a nice surprise...

Car_54

GingerBob wrote: »

Why? Does non-attendance, for this is what it would be deemed, accrue such a punishment? I thought it would be a case of the fine and three points that would have been the original sanction, together with losing the cost of the course.

There's no punishment (as such) for non-attendance: the course has no legal status.

AIUI the FP would no longer be on offer, so off to court we go for the original speeding offence. Still only 3 points, but income-related fine, plus costs and victim surcharge.

jimjames

MB69 wrote: »

Thank you all for the responses.

To confirm, there is no absolute mention of any post markers or anytihng at all on the NIP to confirm location apart from 'M1 Northbound Tibshelf'.

From that scan it seems a very fair response. Quite how they expect you to identify a location from "Place,M1 North Tibshelf" is beyond me. It looks like they were meant to insert the location instead of the "place" marker.