Why are leavers so angry

BobQ

Sapphire wrote: »

It is not a question of merely being 'full of bile towards those of a contrary opinion'. I have grown to dislike the mentioned individuals intensely, for a variety of reasons.

1. Those based in Britain for their self-serving attempts to subvert democracy, using such tactics as stating that Leave voters are stupid and uneducated, and other such methods (when I know that the people who voted Leave of my acquaintance are anything but stupid, and thought through their decision very carefully; none has regretted their decision). Democracy is a very precious thing, achieved by countries over centuries with great difficulty. Once it is lost, it is only regained with great difficulty, and these people are a serious threat to democracy. When it comes to the politicians mentioned, they are failures who think they can gain power by going against the will of the majority instead of standing up for our country in the face of the behaviour of the petty dictators in Brussels. They also include people who would gain personally from Britain remaining in the EU.

2. The Eurocrats based on the Continent for their rudeness, aggression and lack of manners towards our PM, despite the fact that British taxpayers have contributed enormous sums of money to their failing project. We have voted to leave and be a sovereign country, and we should be able to negotiate for the good of both parties without being subjected to the venom that has been thrown at us – such behaviour just cements the opinions of Leavers towards the EU. No country should be forced to be in the EU and lose its sovereignty when the majority of its population does not want this – it would not be a recipe for success, by any means. :cool:

Sapphire, I appreciate your views above.

I am not sure that saying things about your opponents in any campaign is subverting democracy, however. In elections it is not unusual to see political parties accused of representing narrow self interest or wilfully mis-represented, is it? I see that as part of democracy not subverting it.

As with any popular democratic votes, most people vote as they do for good reasons and some for trivial reasons based on ignorance. It was Winston Churchill who once said " Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

I think that during the campaign a lot of things were said that should not have been (I do not claim that I was without blame on that). But we do need to move on. I have accepted we will leave, want to see us do so on the best terms. But I am genuinely concerned that some who won the referendum feel that those who were on the losing side do not have the right to express views on the future, as if any doubt or concern is automatically moaning. This I suggest is more of a danger to democracy.

I accept the thrust of your second point. I think in reacting to the EU we need to remember that the appointed officials in the Commission, the elected EU Parliament and the elected National Governments all have different views on the matter, and like the UK, the EU27 never expected to ever use the Article 50 process (its brevity supports that view). I agree that that is no excuse for rudeness but I would say that the UK over the years has been quite negative on the EU, which may colour their judgement.

Also we need to remember that the behaviours may be a reflection of the negotiations. After all if Mrs May were seen cheerfully socialising with the EU27, I imagine it might not go down well in the UK either.

BobQ

CLAPTON wrote: »

We only lose the EU 'citizenship' if the 27 so determine. It is there decision.
The Irish, after what many may think had reasonable provocation, allowed the remaining people of the UK to live and work there with full freedom of movement of people

Very true they may do this, but that would require retention of Freedom of Movement for the EU27 to the UK since that is a fundamental part of EU Citizenship. You think that it is likely and that UK would agree?

Cornucopia

chucknorris wrote: »

There is no context issue! What you posted didn't make sense.

Do you understand it now?

chucknorris

Cornucopia wrote: »

Do you understand it now?

It is you that doesn't understand, read what you posted!

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

CLAPTON wrote: »

We only lose the EU 'citizenship' if the 27 so determine. It is there decision.
The Irish, after what many may think had reasonable provocation, allowed the remaining people of the UK to live and work there with full freedom of movement of people

So you're quite happy for the EU nations and the UK to agree continued EU citizenship for all and no change to the status quo?

kabayiri

Hmm, angry people then...

Has anyone considered these people may have been 'angry' before the EU referendum?

I see a steady drip feed of commentary from both sides on here and on social media like Facebook.

One thing is clearly apparent. There is no consistency or commonality to how well people have done out of this EU.

Some have. Some have not.

It is hardly surprising. When you travel about the UK and work, as many of us will have done, you get a wide range of experience.

I am genuinely depressed about some of the towns I knew growing up. There is nothing about these town centres that the EU could crow about in triumph.

Leaving the EU may not fix things, but continuing the 'In' status quo sure as hell wasn't going to change things.

Cornucopia

chucknorris wrote: »

It is you that doesn't understand, read what you posted!

I have no idea what you're talking about.

chucknorris

Cornucopia wrote: »

I have no idea what you're talking about.

That doesn't surprise me.

sashacat

I am a leaver voted and delighted with the result.
Sometimes, just sometimes, there are more important issues that the economy. The leave voters I know considered sovereignty and control of immigration more important. I want our Parliament to make our laws and I want our judiciary to uphold them.
If the economy suffers then it is a price worth paying.
There is no such thing as citizenship of the EU. Freedom to live and work is not citizenship. As far as I am aware the only country I am banned from living in is North Korea. I can live and work in China or America, Canada , Malaysia and I have. The last time I looked none of them were in the EU.

Cornucopia

So... Do the Remain camp believe that post-Brexit, countries like Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy, France, Belgium, Holland, and others will simply refuse UK tourism?