Why are leavers so angry

HornetSaver

Fella wrote: »

And of course, that's been compounded by the very many attempts by the Remain camp to try to portray a straightforward in/out referendum as anything other than the straightforward in/out referendum that it clearly was.

The one straightforward thing is that, one way or the other, the UK must leave the European Union as a result of the referendum. I think that considerably more than 51.8% of those who voted six months ago have come to that view, though wouldn't like to put an exact figure on it.

It's the "one way or the other" which seems to be the issue with Leave voters, the more hardcore of whom refuse to acknowledge that there were dramatic variations among Leave voters as to how Brexit would come about and that all those who voted Leave had the same vision of how the Article 50 process would go.

The same issue could be said of the Remain campaign (from genuine Europhiles who believe in a European superstate, to those who felt that they didn't want upheaval, to those who genuinely believed that by voting Remain we could get a better deal than the excuse for one Cameron got). However, those differences are an irrelevance because Remain lost. The differences among Leave voters are relevant because Leave won.

Fella

HornetSaver wrote: »

It's the "one way or the other" which seems to be the issue with Leave voters, the more hardcore of whom refuse to acknowledge that there were dramatic variations among Leave voters as to how Brexit would come about and that all those who voted Leave had the same vision of how the Article 50 process would go.

The key issue is not so much Leave voters visions of how Article 50 would go, as that they all (at least all that I've met) were under the impression it would be "triggered immediately" as promised by Cameron.

Likewise, every Leave voter I know now still wants this. There is zero to be gained by delaying it, for the simple reason that the EU takes exactly the same amount of time to decide literally anything: That amount of time is "however much they have minus about 6 hours". If Article 50 triggered a one-week process, a two-year process or a 20-year process, the EU would use precisely that amount of time, before finally making a decision as late as humanly possible. One of the many reasons why people ACTUALLY wanted to leave.

Doshwaster

CLAPTON wrote: »

so you genuinely believe that people who have lived here for 30-40 years, have children here and have grandchildren here, have friends and neighbours, will all go home to what exactly? And all because its cheaper.
you must have very strange values.

So why do many British people who have lived here all of their lives, have children, grandchildren, friends and neighbours here decide to leave all of that behind and move to Spain? Err... because it is cheaper (and warmer).

Redknapps_Dog

wymondham wrote: »

I'm a leaver, and the reason for the unsettled behaviour is pure and simple. The vote was a clear majority to leave, but there seems to be constant attempts to stop/undermine and derail this process. It's probably not helping that its taking a while before we push the button... once this is done I'm sure things will settle.

Thing is there are so many flavours of brexit, hard, soft, fudge, the Norweigan model, that the brexiters can't agree on. The only thing that

And let's be honest here, there isn't a process. It's one shambles after another.And on a more basic level there's people who've been moaning about leaving the EU for 30 odd years. The same people expect remainers to shut up and be passive? Good luck with that.

GwylimT

CLAPTON wrote: »

so you genuinely believe that people who have lived here for 30-40 years, have children here and have grandchildren here, have friends and neighbours, will all go home to what exactly? And all because its cheaper.
you must have very strange values.

Go home? They are already home.

HornetSaver

Fella wrote: »

The key issue is not so much Leave voters visions of how Article 50 would go, as that they all (at least all that I've met) were under the impression it would be "triggered immediately" as promised by Cameron.

Likewise, every Leave voter I know now still wants this. There is zero to be gained by delaying it, for the simple reason that the EU takes exactly the same amount of time to decide literally anything: That amount of time is "however much they have minus about 6 hours". If Article 50 triggered a one-week process, a two-year process or a 20-year process, the EU would use precisely that amount of time, before finally making a decision as late as humanly possible. One of the many reasons why people ACTUALLY wanted to leave.

You can't immediately do something you have no plan for, and that would be the case no matter how large the leave majority was.

Had the Conservative leader who called the referendum been personally committed to implementing either outcome - including what he believed was the less beneficial of the two options - Article 50 would already have been triggered by now. He wasn't, did not countenance the other outcome, and therefore the current Government (whose main players on foreign policy backed Leave) have no option but to go along with Theresa May's timetable.

That's not a criticism of Leave voters by the way, but I don't see how anyone seriously believed Cameron could lose the referendum and survive more than a few months. Nor do I see how anyone seriously believed that Cameron could trigger Article 50 knowing that there would be an imminent leadership election and that there was the serious prospect of a subsequent general election.

Redknapps_Dog

Doshwaster wrote: »

So why do many British people who have lived here all of their lives, have children, grandchildren, friends and neighbours here decide to leave all of that behind and move to Spain? Err... because it is cheaper (and warmer).

The majority of British living in Spain are there for 2 reasons; their money goes further and it's warmer. They frequently maintain a postal address or such like to get NHS treatment as required. That I find really annoying. They also make little or no attempt to integrate or assimilate into their host nation. They can be a pretty embarrassing bunch all round.

Fella

HornetSaver wrote: »

You can't immediately do something you have no plan for, and that would be the case no matter how large the leave majority was.

I emphatically disagree with that (in this case). I think it's the only way Brexit will happen at all.

If Article 50 was triggered today, people would be forced to focus on resolving all the difficult issues within 2 years.

If we approach it the other way round, something like "lets resolve most or all of the difficult issues then trigger Article 50" it'll never be triggered. Not least because many of the people that would have to be involved don't want Brexit & therefore have zero incentive to resolve anything.

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

The iron curtain's gone. They say churches in the UK fly in Polish priests to say Sunday mass.

The elderly will have the option to go somewhere where their money will get them better accommodation, care and other facilities than they can get here. Eastern European countries have good infrastructure and security. Their family will visit them.

if you have figures that show we have virtually no foreign born over retirement age i would love to see them

prowla

I don't understand why people think that something this complex can be just done without planning?

I think the Government is doing things about right - exploring the options, discussing them, checking out the other side, politicians putting forward their viewpoints.

The problem is that in this day & age, with the need for incessant news, if one person gives a different opinion to someone else, there is suddenly a "rift" or a rebellion, which is baloney; I'm sure the opinions and perspectives will be considered and the Government will formulate its strategy from them.

It seems to me that that is a common-sense approach.