Why are leavers so angry

Shaka_Zulu

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Didn't realise that negotiations had started. An individual expressing an opinion doesn't equate to policy.

Just a little chest beating, to be expected!

badmemory

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Didn't realise that negotiations had started. An individual expressing an opinion doesn't equate to policy.

The real problem is that there doesn't appear to be any policy, and certainly not one that all of the 27 members are going to agree to. That is going to be our major problem - what chance do you think we have up against 27 nations that are totally opposed to anything we wish to do.

We need to get on with living our lives without them, the sooner the better and the sooner all the financial aggro will be over.

lobbyludd

I think we can safely say that the expressed opinions of a few people on this board and the media do not equate to the complex variety of feelings and thought processes of all the people who voted - no matter which way.

If a newspaper article uses terms that people find upsetting, that does not mean that all people who voted the way that newspaper advocated, or buy that newspaper, feel the same way.

If we are going to understand each other's nuanced view points, then we need to stop attacking what we imagine people feel/think, and actually listen to what they tell us they feel/think and why.

Private_Church

badmemory wrote: »

The real problem is that there doesn't appear to be any policy, and certainly not one that all of the 27 members are going to agree to. That is going to be our major problem - what chance do you think we have up against 27 nations that are totally opposed to anything we wish to do.

We need to get on with living our lives without them, the sooner the better and the sooner all the financial aggro will be over.

Are they all totally opposed to anything we want?. Not sure you're right about that because the EU elite don't actually represent the citizens and I'm will to have a wager with you that when negotiations start the willy waving will stop and a deal will be made.

German car manufacturers will need the UK market even more when Trump implements his nationalistic policies to "make America Great again " (lol) where they put large tarrifs on German cars,French beverages,engines,cosmetics,chemicals etc so I'll wager German,French lobby groups will be putting in plenty of overtime in the months to come.

I think we all need to remember that those insular,protectionist little EU elitists may think they run the EU economy but they don't businesses do.:)

BobQ

badmemory wrote: »

The real problem is that there doesn't appear to be any policy, and certainly not one that all of the 27 members are going to agree to. That is going to be our major problem - what chance do you think we have up against 27 nations that are totally opposed to anything we wish to do.

We need to get on with living our lives without them, the sooner the better and the sooner all the financial aggro will be over.

As Private Church says it is not clear cut. Even within the 27 there are contrary opininions and they are not in a strong position on all issues. Industry will inflence the outcome to a degree and on some topics of negotiation the UK and some EU nations will have better agreement than others in the EU27.

People need to realise that the negotiations (plural) are loose groupings of many individual negotiation topics. Also these discussions are probably taking place where they can at present even if formal negotiations have yet to start.

kabayiri

BobQ wrote: »

...
People need to realise that the negotiations (plural) are loose groupings of many individual negotiation topics. Also these discussions are probably taking place where they can at present even if formal negotiations have yet to start.

Just as there are different opinions in the UK government as to what Brexit should mean, there will be different opinions amongst French and German and Italian politicians.

Even the timeline of A50 may play a part. It could be a vote winner in Germany for Merkel to take a hard line re: Brexit with the German elections coming up. After those elections it is anyone's bet.

I don't see how anyone can predict the exact nature of how the discussions will play out.

CLAPTON

kabayiri wrote: »

Just as there are different opinions in the UK government as to what Brexit should mean, there will be different opinions amongst French and German and Italian politicians.

Even the timeline of A50 may play a part. It could be a vote winner in Germany for Merkel to take a hard line re: Brexit with the German elections coming up. After those elections it is anyone's bet.

I don't see how anyone can predict the exact nature of how the discussions will play out.

it would seem to me that Merkel is depends upon the CSU for power.
The CSU is the dominant power in Bavaria which sells an awful lot of cars to the UK. Its unclear to me whether Merkel taking a hard line, which would lose German car exports to the UK, would be a vote winner.

Thrugelmir

Private_Church wrote: »

German car manufacturers will need the UK market even more when Trump implements his nationalistic policies to "make America Great again " (lol) where they put large tarrifs on German cars

BMW "X" series is actually based in South Carolina in the USA. Vehicles are exported from there back to the UK and across the globe. Porsche have a manufacturing base in Atlanta. VW in Chattanooga.

BobQ

CLAPTON wrote: »

it would seem to me that Merkel is depends upon the CSU for power.
The CSU is the dominant power in Bavaria which sells an awful lot of cars to the UK. Its unclear to me whether Merkel taking a hard line, which would lose German car exports to the UK, would be a vote winner.

This is very true but what will happen if a significant number of the EU27 say that their interests are just as important to them and the majority favour a more restrictive relationship. Germany has said its negotiating position will be driven by its national interest which is undoubtedly true of each of the EU27 whatever the Eurocrats say. Its worth noting that it is not just cars we import from Germany. We also import precision engineering products.

Also we could be entering a period when the market deals with the problem before Governments can agree a practical solution. The drop in the pound has made German imports more expensive. Judging by the discounting they are doing they may be maintaining volume by reduced profits.

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

Judging by the discounting they are doing they may be maintaining volume by reduced profits.

All of which has nothing to do with trade deals. More a clear indicator of the true profit that's made by global companies.