Will Brexit really be good for Britain?

CKhalvashi

Sapphire wrote: »

I agree, with the proviso that they should only be allowed to be here for work purposes. And anyone who commits (or has already committed) criminal acts or, for example, begs on the street, should be immediately returned to their own country. It is grossly unfair to taxpayers of this country who have worked hard all their lives to be supporting free loaders from inside or outside the EU, or to put up with criminal acts from visitors to our country, which is detrimental to our own people and causes huge resentment.

That should be the case anyway, and the British government has the right (within reason) to either deport or deny entry to EU nationals if they feel it's against the national interests of the UK to allow entry.

The benefit system I also agree with, and also feel that UK nationals should have had to contribute in order to gain access. That is at the same time a completely different story for a completely different thread.

Where do you guys stand on things like Erasmus? Is the cost worth the benefit (to the UK)?

Matt_L

Sapphire wrote: »

I agree, with the proviso that they should only be allowed to be here for work purposes. And anyone who commits (or has already committed) criminal acts or, for example, begs on the street, should be immediately returned to their own country. It is grossly unfair to taxpayers of this country who have worked hard all their lives to be supporting free loaders from inside or outside the EU, or to put up with criminal acts from visitors to our country, which is detrimental to our own people and causes huge resentment.

I agree but how about those that constantly moan and complain and put our country and democracy down....

[Deleted User]

CKhalvashi wrote: »

which will harm both, with the UK being harmed a lot more.

Why will he UK be harmed more :huh:

leveller2911

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Where do you guys stand on things like Erasmus? Is the cost worth the benefit (to the UK)?

Not really sure its possible to accurately test for the cost benefit of the scheme. Its been going for decades and every few years they seem to re-brand it. It obviously has its place but as a cynic I do wonder if the real intention is to breed pro European elites amongst EU countries.

Quote: "Some academics have speculated that former Erasmus students will prove to be a powerful force in creating a pan-European identity. The political scientist Stefan Wolff, for example, has argued that "Give it 15, 20 or 25 years, and Europe will be run by leaders with a completely different socialisation from those of today", referring to the so-called 'Erasmus generation".

Just something worth thinking about maybe...:)

CKhalvashi

Bedsit_Bob wrote: »

Why will he UK be harmed more :huh:

Because in proportion of exports and proportion of overall GDP, the UK exports more to the EU than the other way around.

This in proportionate terms will have more of a negative effect.

This will be doubled to the UK consumer if £1 = €1ish, as VAT will be paid effectively twice (in terms of cost), plus import duties to boot.

leveller2911 wrote: »

Not really sure its possible to accurately test for the cost benefit of the scheme. Its been going for decades and every few years they seem to re-brand it. It obviously has its place but as a cynic I do wonder if the real intention is to breed pro European elites amongst EN countries.

Quote: "Some academics have speculated that former Erasmus students will prove to be a powerful force in creating a pan-European identity. The political scientist Stefan Wolff, for example, has argued that "Give it 15, 20 or 25 years, and Europe will be run by leaders with a completely different socialisation from those of today", referring to the so-called 'Erasmus generation".

Just something worth thinking about maybe...:)

I doubt that's the reality.

I think (possibly) also that if we end up with a softer Brexit, we'll have a higher level of Eurosceptics in parliament next time. If we go down the hard route, we may end up with a younger generation of politician (10+ years younger than now on average), who may or may not want us back in the EU.

In their own ways, both or neither of those options may be a good thing.

CKhalvashi

leveller2911 wrote: »

My own view is EU nationals living here should be given the right to remain but once we trigger Article 50 thats the cut off point so anyone moving to the UK or from the UK to the EU post Article 50 signing gives no guaranteeotherwise we will see numbers coming here increasing each year until the final deal is signed.

I'd argue that wouldn't be legally possible, as we are committed to FoM until the date we leave.

I'm sure this will, in due course, be tested in the courts.

There is no way, even with the level of planning that has taken place since mid July-ish I can commit to being resident somewhere else by the end of March. I'm hopeful, but it's unlikely. The end of next year is much more likely, however I'm fully appreciative that with the plans I have, whatever happens I'm very unlikely to be asked to leave whatever happens.

I've made my point clear that some operations will be leaving next year as a safety net, however I'm tied into some UK-based agreements until at least mid-2019.

Any EU migrant who is given a custodial sentence of more than 12 months or a repeat offender should be deported on release even if they have family here and the same should go for Brits living in the EU. We need rules to stop people lving here for years on benefits, even if they are a minority and the same rules for Brits claiming benefits in Poland,Romania etc.

We can do that now. The fact the UK chooses not to is a different matter. I fully appreciate that even as an EU citizen, I'm probably going to have to have some form of basic criminal background check before being granted a residency card.

I fully get your personal need to remain in the EU but for me the EU is like a very slow motion car crash and we can all see the end game.

I disagree here.

In principal it's a good idea, it could be executed better, however that's the case with many things in life, and many things are unlikely to change while the UK is a member, purely because it won't be allowed to be.

If the UK turns into the car crash you describe in late 2018 to early 2019 what will be your plan then? What if there's a 10% decrease in GDP, 7-8% inflation and 20% unemployment as a worst case scenario?

I'm not trying to say it's going to, just trying to sensibly debate the matter to see where the concensus on red line is.

CLAPTON

CKhalvashi wrote: »

in general, the UK can't deport eu people who commit crimes in the UK

CKhalvashi

CLAPTON wrote: »

in general, the UK can't deport eu people who commit crimes in the UK

In general, the UK can do so, on public policy grounds.

CLAPTON

CKhalvashi wrote: »

In general, the UK can do so, on public policy grounds.

for very limited people that might be true, but we can't have a blanket order deporting all EU criminals

LHW99

Where do you guys stand on things like Erasmus? Is the cost worth the benefit (to the UK)?

IMHO the scheme has merits, but is too narrow, for example what about people who wish to study elsewhere - China, Japan, India, Middle East (when not a war zone) for example - interesting cultures, but little encouragment for cultural exchange.