Brexit vote: The breakdown

Graham_Devon

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I believe it because I see it every day.

You see a very small fraction of society (those you directly work with).

You don't see those up at the crack of dawn doing long days, working bloody hard jobs, who, for whatever reason, never get any further than that.

By design, we can't have everyone working senior positions. Therefore, it's not possible for everyone who grafts and has ambitions to actually make it.

And you appear to forget you were given stuff. You've told us all about the stuff you were given or lent to help you up several times. So why you make out now you have done it all off your own back I'm not sure.

Graham_Devon

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Society cannot fix their problems - as most who do not succeed have chosen not to succeed - and the only person that can fix that problem is the one they see in the mirror.

Hmm, this post reminds me as to why I gave this place a wide berth.

You are extremely lucky Hamish, extremely lucky to have got so far through life without being adversely effected by an event outside of your control.

That could be death, divorce, working for a company that goes under. It could be a life changing incident which you simply drive by on the way to work, possibly, like the rest of us, grumbling as you are now late.

You've not had children, so can't, but more importantly adamantly refuse to understand that for the majority, your own blood comes before promotion and working all hours god sends.

You refuse to believe that the helping hand you had put you 5-10 years in front of where you would have otherwise been (even though you have stated as much yourself).

It's a strange old world, how we all individually see it. I do believe though that we all have the capability to recognise that everyone is different and life....well, life can throw anything at you...and what is thrown at you can change your life dramatically....for better, or for worse.

Everything you know and believe can be whisked away in an instant....no matter how hard you've tried.

Sapphire

In reply to Graham Devon's post 120
There is a whole heap of academic research out there that suggests that those born into welathy families do better than those born into poorer families.

I see it all around me. I've grown up with it. I've seen people leave school with nothing and do nothing sitting in 4 bed houses by the time they are 25 and "working" in the family business. I've seen someone with no hope whatsoever be given 5 houses which is now his "job" between surfing and visiting the world.

I've also seen people put years into education, put their lives on hold while they work from the bottom....still at the bottom - and that's no reflection on them.

I've seen a neighbour go from having nothing and trying to get further turn into doing nothing and living very well thankyou very much. He would now seem the epitome of success as you have defined it (business owner, financially comfortable, nice home). But reality is simply a very large inheritance of a business which runs itself. I'm not knocking him, he worked bloody hard. But that work had no effect on what he now has.

And just as of yesterday, we had someone on the radio who doesn't work and instead devotes his life to being eco friendly and living off the land - all fine for him, because he lives off the royalties of christmas songs written by his grandparent!

In many walks of life people are where they are simply due to the lottery of what you are born into.

Much of what you say is true. I've seen evidence of it myself in my own family, where people have inherited a great deal of money and now indulge themselves. They don't work (they think of themselves as being useful, by swanning around and engaging in their pet obsessions, to do with things like the arts, complementary medicine, conspiracy theories, etc.). One person who will inherit in future is on a permanent gap year. This despite having a 'uni' education. These people have no particular ambition to 'get on' in life or to be productive, and mentally I would say they are not that healthy as a result.

However, I do also know of people who lost absolutely everything during the war (including their families, all material possession and country), yet have managed to end up affluent through hard work and determination. I think the way you have been bought up, e.g. to not expect hand-outs, and to feel that you have to work and that you owe it to society not to sponge off fellow taxpayers, has a lot to do with how you do in life in material terms. It isn't solely about coming from a wealthy background, in the experience of my family, anyway.

CLAPTON

Sapphire wrote: »

In reply to Graham Devon's post 120
There is a whole heap of academic research out there that suggests that those born into welathy families do better than those born into poorer families.

I see it all around me. I've grown up with it. I've seen people leave school with nothing and do nothing sitting in 4 bed houses by the time they are 25 and "working" in the family business. I've seen someone with no hope whatsoever be given 5 houses which is now his "job" between surfing and visiting the world.

I've also seen people put years into education, put their lives on hold while they work from the bottom....still at the bottom - and that's no reflection on them.

I've seen a neighbour go from having nothing and trying to get further turn into doing nothing and living very well thankyou very much. He would now seem the epitome of success as you have defined it (business owner, financially comfortable, nice home). But reality is simply a very large inheritance of a business which runs itself. I'm not knocking him, he worked bloody hard. But that work had no effect on what he now has.

And just as of yesterday, we had someone on the radio who doesn't work and instead devotes his life to being eco friendly and living off the land - all fine for him, because he lives off the royalties of christmas songs written by his grandparent!

In many walks of life people are where they are simply due to the lottery of what you are born into.

Much of what you say is true. I've seen evidence of it myself in my own family, where people have inherited a great deal of money and now indulge themselves. They don't work (they think of themselves as being useful, by swanning around and engaging in their pet obsessions, to do with things like the arts, complementary medicine, conspiracy theories, etc.). One person who will inherit in future is on a permanent gap year. This despite having a 'uni' education. These people have no particular ambition to 'get on' in life or to be productive, and mentally I would say they are not that healthy as a result.

However, I do also know of people who lost absolutely everything during the war (including their families, all material possession and country), yet have managed to end up affluent through hard work and determination. I think the way you have been bought up, e.g. to not expect hand-outs, and to feel that you have to work and that you owe it to society not to sponge off fellow taxpayers, has a lot to do with how you do in life in material terms. It isn't solely about coming from a wealthy background, in the experience of my family, anyway.

I know the loony left will automatically disagree, but all the science says that we inherit our genes from our parents.

whilst its acceptable to explain ginger hair of a child by inheritance from the parents, it seems less so to explain intelligence, entrepreneurship, drive etc.
Whilst clearly much of the adult person is the result of their environment its also true that much of the adult is a result of the genes.
So I'm not at all surprised that 'deprived children' don't, on average, grow up to go to Uni nor am I surprised that the majority of the children of my well educated (intelligent) friends do go to Uni.

Herzlos

That's got nothing to do with the fact that affluent children have all sorts of implicit advantages that they don't realize which can have a significant impact on how their career starts and progresses.

Not having to work through uni means you have more time to study. Having contacts for a placement gives you a good in. Being able to afford clothes/travel/time for interviews makes a better impression. Having somewhere quiet to study gives better results. Having your own laptop and internet connection helps with study. Your dad owning a business gives you a ready-made career.

Graham_Devon

mwpt wrote: »

Wait, that is JK Rowlings childhood home? I thought she "came from nothing"?

She "came from nothing" in that she was a single mother at the time that she wrote the first Harry Potter book.

Her mother died quite young, though before that, they were both successful and put her through uni. She had to study French though, something she regrets. They tried to get her into Oxford (so that should give some indication of their ability), but she didn't get in.

She got into Exeter, had a couple of gap years etc. So was funding it all somehow as her first job was after all of that.

Her fortune comes from her writing. However, she did come from, and gained from a seemingly financially capable family.

kabayiri

Conrad wrote: »

Globalisation means increased competition, thus pressure on us all to fight for income.
...

Ultimately, this process turns more and more labour roles into commodity. This is the plan, because commodity is cheaper.

There is nothing inherent in this process to suggest it is equitable or balanced or has sustainability designed in.

Journos who write for our "right-on" press should understand this. They are not immune either. They will be busking soon to make ends meet, wondering why they are writing about C-list celebrities paid 6 figures to eat kangaroo balls for entertainment.