Brexit vote: The breakdown

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

I'd start further back - better education and infrastructure. Neither are going to happen under this austerity drive. Cutting services invariably means cutting staff, which means more people needing handouts and spending less money back into the economy.

I'm not convinced higher wages will necessarily help - all it'll do is drive the cost of stuff up.

Reducing immigration will have zero impact on the "Just About Coping"'s whilst the Tories are trying to shaft them in every way possible.

One might assume that education and infrastructure are not going to be instant solutions.
The government is spending more that its income : what you you suggesting higher taxes and/or higher borrowing?
All the evidence is that employment is growing whether because or inspite of the 9 years of 'austerity' is I guess debateable.

Good to see you are against higher wages : we'll make a tory of you yet

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

One might assume that education and infrastructure are not going to be instant solutions.

Nope, they are long term solutions, which we need to get right now, so that we don't have the same issues in another 10 years.

The government is spending more that its income : what you you suggesting higher taxes and/or higher borrowing?

It should look at where it's spending money; it has no issue finding billions for things like Trident and lobbing missiles at Syria.

All the evidence is that employment is growing whether because or inspite of the 9 years of 'austerity' is I guess debateable.

Yeah, there's no conclusive way, but would employment figures be the same if we didn't go so far down the austerity route, which isn't actually doing anything about the deficit.

Good to see you are against higher wages : we'll make a tory of you yet

Over my dead body. I'm very much a lefty, but also a realist.

kabayiri

mwpt wrote: »

But that is a different question. You asked why you shouldn't blame the EU and I explained. You seem to keep adapting your arguments to maintain the position "EU is bad".

No, it was YOU who said blame the EU in post 77.

I merely suggested that I didn't think the EU was selling itself too well through it's inability to deal with some major issues.

So, go on then.

Sell the EU to me to the point where we should abandon A50 and stay in.

wotsthat

kabayiri wrote: »

Sell the EU to me to the point where we should abandon A50 and stay in.

Take a wander over to the what happens if we vote Brexit thread. A veritable feast of news about just how great the UK economy is doing despite being shackled to the EU.

Of course, some take the view that once we have control of all 'the levers' we'll be smoking it but oddly they're the same people who pour ridicule on the same idea if mentioned by one of the SNP fan club.

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

Nope, they are long term solutions, which we need to get right now, so that we don't have the same issues in another 10 years.



It should look at where it's spending money; it has no issue finding billions for things like Trident and lobbing missiles at Syria.



Yeah, there's no conclusive way, but would employment figures be the same if we didn't go so far down the austerity route, which isn't actually doing anything about the deficit.



Over my dead body. I'm very much a lefty, but also a realist.

broadly speaking then, you believe there is plenty of money but its just being spent incorrectly and you still don't think higher wages are a good idea.

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

broadly speaking then, you believe there is plenty of money but its just being spent incorrectly

Correct.

and you still don't think higher wages are a good idea.

Bumping up the minimum wage in isolation just makes goods and services more expensive. It may be useful to do but isn't a panacea solution.

Malthusian

Herzlos wrote: »

I'd start further back - better education and infrastructure. Neither are going to happen under this austerity drive.

Neither are going to happen by whacking up the rate of increase of government spending even further either. That notion was tested to exhaustion under Blair/Brown.

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

Bumping up the minimum wage in isolation just makes goods and services more expensive. It may be useful to do but isn't a panacea solution.

I too am against bumping up the minimum/living wage

I would rather that businesses had the incentives to improve their products and productivity so that each worker produces more value and so justifies more money.
However the flood of cheap labour discourages risky expensive investment ; well why would you if labour is plenty and cheap

bugslet

ruggedtoast wrote: »

As a Left winger I find it a great shame that all those people who feel themselves to be struggling financially blame Europe, rather than the Tories, when the European versions of them aren't struggling at all.

.

I think the European versions of them are struggling. To take Germany, which I believe is generally considered to be pretty much at the top of the tree economically speaking, they still have foodbanks that help feed 1.5 million people.

I think we have an idea that it's better in Europe, but it seems that if you at the bottom of the heap, it's probably no different to here in the broadest sense.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2013/07/11/germany-foodbanks/

Conrad

wotsthat wrote: »

Of course, some take the view that once we have control of all 'the levers' we'll be smoking

Globalisation means increased competition, thus pressure on us all to fight for income.


It's this need to compete as best we can that demands a nation is now as nimble and fast footed as possible. This autonomy over ourselves as a nation is the way to go if we are to prosper going forwards. The last thing we need is an additional layer of disconnected political interference.

The EU and bodies such as the UN, look increasingly dated, cumbersome and amount to little more than talking shops, squabbling away with little delivery.