Help Needed On Avoiding Care Fees



  • ceridwen
    ceridwen Posts: 11,547
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    Okay - I think we have settled now - there have been one heck of a lot of personal opinions expressed on this thread - when actually all that was asked for was FACT.

    I think some people do need to remember MSE Martins injunction to be kind to each other - whew am I glad I am not on the receiving end of some of what MyRubyRed has had written on this thread!!!!

    FACT ONLY - NOT OPINION is the rule to go by. I suppose I am used to the O.S. forum myself - where basically people are normally pretty kind and helpful to each other and dont give personal opinions - so its a bit of a shock to the system at times when I venture onto other forums (including this one).

    One thing that strikes me is that peoples opinions are so often formed by the life they personally have led! I remind people at this point of my comment earlier in the thread that the ONLY person I have personally encountered who believes that a persons house should be sold to cover any nursing home care they need doesnt possess one (Reason - he came from a poor background basically - "green-eyed monster" stuff - and he personally has had "spend today and never mind about tomorrow" as his spending criteria).

    I do believe strongly that people should try HARD not to be influenced by their own background and experiences when deciding what opinion to have on anything!!!!!!!! One must try to be as objective as possible always in forming opinions - not base them on ones own personal experience of life if at all possible - because other people have had different experiences. It is a counsel of perfection I know - but the one to at least aim for (aim for the sun and one might at least hit the moon!).

    I have found a lot of the stuff on this thread very judgmental to date. Can we just stick to pure FACTS only now - not someones own personal opinion!
  • Errata
    Errata Forumite Posts: 38,230
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    I think there has been a lot of factual information posted and the OP asked for people's help. Posts are based on the posters own experience and knowledge - how could it be otherwise?
    I'm sure there are a lot of personal opinions posted on the OS board, along the lines of "try this" "no, don't try that, it doesn't work" etc etc. I've certainly posted my opinion in threads on the OS board.
    You write that you've "found a lot of stuff posted on this thread very judgemental". That's your opinion, and you are perfectly entitled to express it.
    .................:)....I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...:)
  • EdInvestor
    EdInvestor Posts: 15,749 Forumite
    I'm not sure I agree with this "non judgmental" business. It seems to crop up a lot in contexts related to debt.

    IMHO , if people are in trouble and have developed enough courage to seek help, then this is good and the should receive encouragement to deal with their problems.

    But not at the expense of realism about their situation, why they got into it and how they can get out of it.You need a mix.There is no reason to label realistic people "judgmental" and thus devalue their opinions.

    Equally in the case of avoiding paying for care, people perhaps need to know that quite a lot of taxpayers don't really see why they should pay extra to fund someone else's inheritance. And they also may need to know that the authorities will investigate any avoidance efforts, just as the taxman will check on how they have made additional money by doing so and seek to tax those gains.
    Trying to keep it simple...;)
  • Bogof_Babe
    Bogof_Babe Forumite Posts: 10,803 Forumite
    If all you want is FACT, can I refer you back to my previous post where I suggested that the best way to get FACTS is by asking the CAB or the DWP. Not a bunch of strangers on a public message board.
    :D I haven't bogged off yet, and I ain't no babe :D

  • EdInvestor
    EdInvestor Posts: 15,749 Forumite
    Errata wrote: »
    This is already happening all over the country with purpose built accommodation - 2 rooms K & B - in blocks staffed 24/7 with qualified staff, in house restaurant if people don't feel like cooking, reisdents loung (some with a licensed bar!) IT room, small exercise room/gym and etc and etc.
    People live thus as tenants, not residents, and enjoy independence and personal and health care to hand when they need it. This way of providing care that people need is far more cost effective than a care home placement, the people who live in the accommodation prefer it, they don't lose their independence and there's lots of stuff for them to join in or be entertained by if they want it. The overwhelming outcome is that people are healthier, happier and live longer and because it's cost effective more people can take advantage of it.

    Hi Errata,

    Do you have any links with details of this kind of facility in different locations in the country? Where can info be found?
    Trying to keep it simple...;)
  • Savvy_Sue
    Savvy_Sue Forumite Posts: 45,425
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I do see where you're coming from, ceridwen, but if you want facts, then an internet chat forum is not necessarily the best place to look for them. Citizen's Advice, Help the Aged, Age Concern, your local Social Services: these will all give you facts. If MyRubyRed's mother wants to pursue this idea, she needs legal advice from a solicitor both about the possible implications of no longer owning the whole house and about the inheritance tax implications. She may well need to update her will.

    What I get from this chat forum is an indication of the range of things I need to think about, and in this area an indication that it's rarely as straightfoward as it first appears.

    You do, after a while, get to know who seems to really know their stuff, and who - like me - is only giving pointers to the things that need to be thought about.

    But probably less than a year after her partner's death, my suspicion - and it is only that - is that MRR's mother may be worrying as part of her grieving. And one worry may lead to another when the full implications of transfer are investigated.

    So my suggestions of looking at what would need doing to the house in order not to NEED residential care are an attempt to side-step that worry, and as it were to sneak round the back of it without opening several other cans of worms.

    If it's clear that in the medium to longer term this is not a house which can ever be made sensible for MRR's mother's needs, then moving has to be considered. But it doesn't have to be into residential care! And that's something which MRR's mother may or may not be able to take on board, emotionally, at this time, if she is 'terrified' of her daughter's 'inheritance' being swallowed up by those costs.
    Signature removed for peace of mind
  • nicolajane1
    nicolajane1 Forumite Posts: 51 Forumite
    tanith wrote: »
    Sorry but if your Mum has the means to pay should she need to go into a care home then why should she not pay for that care? Do you both really think that the money should come from tax payers when she has the means to pay for it ? Would you not rather your mother was taken care of properly and pay the fees in a nice nursing home, than shoved into some low grade (and some of them are very low) old peoples home just so you could get your 'inheritance'. :eek:
    Her mum will have already paid for her care, by means of her tax she has most probably paid all her working life, I feel very sorry that she may have to pay for her care, in scotland i believe the care for elderly is free, which i think it should be. Why should this lady use her home she has worked hard to buy most likely, to pay for care which she may need. Stop the benefits to the low life and lazy and we will most likely pay for all the elderly care that is needed!!!!! And yes this has happened to one of my relatives who before she died had paid nearly £70,000 in care fees and that was only for a few years. It wasnt the inheritance issue it was the fact the someone who never works gets it paid for, and someone who has worked all their life paid tax together with her husband, doesn't. what's fair, you decide!!!
  • Errata
    Errata Forumite Posts: 38,230
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    EdInvestor wrote: »
    Hi Errata,

    Do you have any links with details of this kind of facility in different locations in the country? Where can info be found?

    Here's an example
    .................:)....I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...:)
  • Errata
    Errata Forumite Posts: 38,230
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Well you know..........there's no point whittering about the unfairness of it all, the trick is to do something that will improve matters. Which some of us have been doing for quite some time, with a modicum of success.
    .................:)....I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...:)
  • jem16
    jem16 Forumite Posts: 19,365
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    in scotland i believe the care for elderly is free,

    Not entirely true I'm afraid.

    Taken from here;

    How much will I be expected to contribute; isn't all care now provided to older people free of charge?

    Older people aged 65 and over, who have been assessed as in need of personal care by the social work service, will have the first £145 per week of their care home fees paid for them. The authority will also pay £65 per week towards the care costs of people under and over 65 years who have been assessed as in need of nursing care.

    If you are aged 65 or over, and have been assessed as in need of personal and nursing care, you will have the first £210 per week of the care home's fees paid by the social work service. You will only be expected to contribute towards the remaining cost of the care. These remaining care costs, over and above any entitlement to free personal and nursing care, are called the 'hotel' or 'accommodation' costs of the care home.

    Basically it's down to social services as to whether you are "in need".
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