Help Needed On Avoiding Care Fees 16 September 2007 at 9:19PM in Over 50s MoneySaving 107 replies 22.3K views

seven-day-weekend

I too would like to praise the Council-run home and the care workers that saw my mum through in the twilight of her years. She loved her home and made new friends. She was allowed to go to bed and get up when she wanted. They always did special food for her as she was a very fussy vegetarian, they made her tasty tit-bits that she would eat.And the night she was dying, at the age of 94, the Care Manager brought in extra staff so that there would always be someone there to see to my mum's personal needs.

My mum died still happy and smiling.

There ARE good homes and committed staff. Thank you all.

Errata

Well in a way they were right. The goalposts have been moved significantly.
Until 30 or so years ago people with dementia who were unable to care for themselves were placed in a local large psychiatric hospital in a back ward, and those who needed care for a significant physical health problem would be in the local hospital. So not placing people in hospital, but in a care home, is a significant improvement.
Fifty years ago the average life expectancy was much lower than today's. The government could afford the cost of having people in a psychiatric or general hospital for a period of time as it wouldn't be a very long period.
Average life expectancy changes and the goverments response to that is to move the goalposts. This has always happened. In the 1800's older people with no-one to care for them were put in the workhouse, which I believe were funded out of the local rates.

MyRubyRed

Errata
Can't argue with your logic but its an extreme view I think. Certainly life in a care home would, in most cases, be better than psychiatric ward, general hospital or workhouse.But we aren't in the 1800's, 50 or 30 yrs back. And if the individual has a medical condition - dementia or otherwise , needs care and is placed in a care home because that is what they need,then should that cost not be covered by NHS...and in turn contributions my parents have already made?

ceridwen

I do think we all need to be aware that many of us will be old ourselves one day - and it is for our own sake (as well as for the sake of the generation that has gone before us) that we need to question how the elderly are treated.

I repeat my question - do people think it is acceptable for adult "children" still living with their parents (and, in my experience, caring for them as well) to be thrown into Council accommodation (or worse) if the parent has to go into a home? These "children" have been used to having a home of their own - is it fair for them to lose it because they dont have the ownership of it (even if their parent intended them to have this). For information - I have no "vested interest" in saying this - I have had my own home for some time, so it wouldnt happen to me.

For information - from the current edition of "Mature Times" two very relevant articles:

http://www.maturetimes.co.uk/node/3723

http://www.maturetimes.co.uk/node/3737

seven-day-weekend

ceridwen wrote: »

MyRubyRed - I am not surprised you are feeling upset at the comments from some posters - with their implication that you are concerned about inheritance - I would have been furious if I were you. It was obvious to me that what you were saying is that it is your mother who is the one who is concerned - and that the subject of her concern is her right to do as she thinks fit with her own property. I would like to register that I think those posters who made those implications are right out of order for doing so. I, for one, can fully see and appreciate that you are genuinely concerned for your mothers welfare. I think the problem arises because some posters didnt take the trouble to read your original post properly - par for the course with life - it never ceases to amaze me how few people listen properly to what someone is saying to them - they just indulge in very hurried selective listening and then ride off on one of their hobbyhorses. I express my sympathies that some of them have misread your post.

Thank you errata for your "Guardian" article - exactly what I am concerned about. Obviously we are all aware that some old peoples homes do have reasonable standards - and I have come across such myself. Equally obviously, I trust we are all aware that there are "the others" - and I have personally heard of these too (I can recall someone saying to me that she had found that the person she was visiting in one didnt get enough to eat and their clothes seemed to be "disappearing" and being very upset by this). Sweden's way of dealing with things is very much to be commended - and its long past time it was emulated here. Now what was that phrase about getting the measure of how civilised a society is by how it treats its old people? How true.

Liked osmonddiva's last comment here!

Another thought here is the mention earlier of an adult child still living at home - I have been and am aware of several people living in a parents home well into adulthood, and obviously (for whatever reason) these "children" are never going to buy a place of their own. I have seen various reasons for this - and now of course one must add current houseprice levels - but one thing all these adult "children" stay-at-homers I have seen have in common is that they are providing a high level of care for their elderly parents. A fine thank you it would represent from the State if it chucked them out on into Council accommodation (or worse) in order to sell their home over their head to cover the parents carehome fees.

Yes!! You understand! (Although I hasten to add we are not at this stage yet, we are only in our late 50s. We live in Spain and our son lives in the family home in the UK). He has mild AS which in his case probably means that he will never have a high-paying job. If he is still in the house when we are older (and back in the UK), why should he be forced out of his home if we go into care? - however I would be delighted for him to have a Council place now, but single childless people stand absolutely no chance.:mad:

If we have to fund our own care (and I hope it is never necessary for either of us) then hopefully the money from our Spanish house will fund it and hope the money doesn't run out.

osmonddiva

And if the individual has a medical condition - dementia or otherwise , needs care and is placed in a care home because that is what they need,then should that cost not be covered by NHS...and in turn contributions my parents have already made?

Exactly the point I think. Care home is required usually because of a medical need such as Dementia or or other physical needs. It is not normally chosen as a non essential luxury way of life. As a neccesity it should be provided by the state. I would be happy to see a penny in the pound on my taxes to provide the care to the elderly, infirm or genuinly unemployed. Priorities in this country often getting mixed up. But then maybe this would be getting to political. Am only out to give support to rubyred not really to slate others opinions.

EdInvestor

7DW

As I understand what you've said, your son is basically dependant on you? If so, he would be treated in the same way as a spouse if he was left in the home with you and hubby in care/passed away or any combination thereof.No need to worry in this case AFAIK.

Also pleased to hear Margaret's op has gone well

seven-day-weekend

Thankyou Edinvestor, he is a very intelligent and likeable young man with many skills and abilities (which is par for the course with AS) . However his particular difficulties are to do with organisation and concentration and although he has learned to live with these and adapt them to life to a certain extent, we think it unlikely that he will ever have anything other than a low-paid job and therefore will not be in a position to buy a property (Unless he marries into money!). He still needs quite a lot of support (done by e-mail or telephone) with things like financial issues and keeping appointments. Even renting privately at the moment would make too large a dent in his part-time income. So he has a home in our house for as long as he wants/needs it and we would like that to remain so.

Thanks for your interest.

ceridwen

....and now can we get back to the original point - ie MyRubyReds query as to whether it is possible to ease her mothers worries a bit by means of putting Rubys name on the deeds of her house as joint owner. A simple legal query - that I dont have the knowledge to answer - but hopefully someone else does - one way or t'other.

seven-day-weekend

Hi RubyRed, sorry for hijacking your thread.

I think if you have your name on the deeds as joint owner (tenants in common) then that can be a way of ensuring the house isn't sold straight away to pay for care fees.

However the Council may put a charge on it so that when your mother dies and you inherit her share, it may then have to be sold.

Also, if she has to go into care quite soon after putting your name on, it may be seen as 'deliberate deprivation of assets' in order to avoid paying care home fees and the house will have to be sold anyway.

I really think you need a lawyer's advice.

Good luck!