Help Needed On Avoiding Care Fees

Bogof_Babe

You are quite right EdInvestor, in that almost all threads started on this topic and on the Benefits board would require one of two simple answers - ask the CAB or ask the DWP. They are after all the experts in these areas, so by posting on here and inviting laypersons' views, people should expect a degree of personal feelings to be expressed.

As for care in the home, it is not as simple to organize as it might sound. We enquired about an alarm system that is worn around the neck, but they insist on having two contact numbers who will respond should the alarm be activated, which is not always practical and wasn't in our case due to location and lack of approachable neighbours.

Cradle to grave is still a working concept, but with something as inevitable as old age it is not appropriate to expect the working population to pay for the food, housing, laundry, heating, bathing etc. of thousands of well-off people who have the means to pay for themselves.

What bemuses me about this whole area is why offspring expect as a right to benefit from the fruits of their parents' labours. Whatever happened to making your own way in life?

monkeyspanner

EdInvestor wrote: »

The correct "advice" on care issues is itself a matter of opinion - not that anybody should think they will receive any formal advice on this forum. MSE offers information and opinion only, not advice.


To my mind a lot of pressure would be taken of the whole care problem if

a) It was agreed that once a person with dementia/Alzheimers needed 24/7 care, it was treated as an illness and paid for by the NHS.

b) The Government looked at ways of making care annuities more affordable, perhaps with better tax breaks and more usable for purchasing part-time care at home.

c)For the future the Govt looked at offering more incentives for a more modern concept of care - in the sheltered housing/assisted living style rather than in the conventional expensive residential care home.

So I guess all the times I have offered advice on practical ways to save money on MSE have just been me expressing an opinion. Or are you talking only about this forum?

I do think your opinion in a) above could save a lot of time but no doubt there would be many different opinions in Social Services and the medical profession as to how to classify the types of dementia in order to reduce the expediture on care and make the lives of carers that much more stressful and complicated. Perhaps I could canvas readers opinions on how many social workers it takes to make a sensible decision.

No forget that I might feel compelled to offer my opinion on their opinions.

I am off to waste my time somewhere else. Bye

margaretclare

EdInvestor wrote: »

The correct "advice" on care issues is itself a matter of opinion - not that anybody should think they will receive any formal advice on this forum. MSE offers information and opinion only, not advice.


To my mind a lot of pressure would be taken of the whole care problem if

a) It was agreed that once a person with dementia/Alzheimers needed 24/7 care, it was treated as an illness and paid for by the NHS.

b) The Government looked at ways of making care annuities more affordable, perhaps with better tax breaks and more usable for purchasing part-time care at home.

c)For the future the Govt looked at offering more incentives for a more modern concept of care - in the sheltered housing/assisted living style rather than in the conventional expensive residential care home.

I agree with all of this.

Margaret

margaretclare

Bogof_Babe wrote: »

Cradle to grave is still a working concept, but with something as inevitable as old age it is not appropriate to expect the working population to pay for the food, housing, laundry, heating, bathing etc. of thousands of well-off people who have the means to pay for themselves.

Yes, this would be the logical end to the 'State should pay' argument, wouldn't it?

What bemuses me about this whole area is why offspring expect as a right to benefit from the fruits of their parents' labours. Whatever happened to making your own way in life?

I think that in this particular case it is the widowed mother who is most concerned about this, as was pointed out in a clarification from the OP. However, I did think that on seeing the title of this thread that it was the offspring and not the parent - it appears not to be the case. I completely agree with 'making your own way in life', and as someone who came from an extremely poor background, I don't think I've done too badly. DH is even more forthright - 'no one ever left us a penny-piece so why should we leave anything to anybody?'

I am just sad that someone my age has nothing better to interest her, to concern herself with, than worrying about something which may never happen. Life is short, life is fragile, and life is for living! There's no shortage of things to get interested in and which are rewarding. And none of us knows what may happen. Some of my 'strong opinions' that I've been criticised about have come from experiences. In November 2002 I said to my younger daughter as we walked down my back garden 'This will all be yours one day'. She squeezed my arm and said 'I hope not for a very long time'.

On the day before New Year's Eve, not much more than a month later, she was dead, aged 39, 6 weeks into the 'job of her dreams'.

Margaret

frannyann

Bear in mind also a figure told to me by a consultant in care of the eldery, 80% of the eldery die at home peacefully in their own bed having never needed care or hospital involvment.

Errata

c)For the future the Govt looked at offering more incentives for a more modern concept of care - in the sheltered housing/assisted living style rather than in the conventional expensive residential care home.

This is already happening all over the country with purpose built accommodation - 2 rooms K & B - in blocks staffed 24/7 with qualified staff, in house restaurant if people don't feel like cooking, reisdents loung (some with a licensed bar!) IT room, small exercise room/gym and etc and etc.
People live thus as tenants, not residents, and enjoy independence and personal and health care to hand when they need it. This way of providing care that people need is far more cost effective than a care home placement, the people who live in the accommodation prefer it, they don't lose their independence and there's lots of stuff for them to join in or be entertained by if they want it. The overwhelming outcome is that people are healthier, happier and live longer and because it's cost effective more people can take advantage of it.

I'd just like to make one point. Some people feel the government should pay for care because that's fair. Anyone who has a property worth £200k - not unexceptional in this day and age - and expects their care to be paid for through government taxes will actually be using the tax paid by the older people who don't need care. Is this fair? The majority of people work hard all their lives, and many people now in possession of an expensive property have not managed that by their hard work, it's because the housing market over the last 25 years or so has gone into orbit. Those who bought a house for a few thousand which is now worth a great many thousands have been lucky.

Bogof_Babe

Margaret, that is so tragic. I don't know what happened to your daughter, but it must have been a devastating loss, and you are very brave to talk about it. I don't think we do "hugs" on this forum, but if we did then you certainly deserve some. xxx

margaretclare

frannyann wrote: »

Bear in mind also a figure told to me by a consultant in care of the eldery, 80% of the elderly die at home peacefully in their own bed having never needed care or hospital involvement.

In today's local paper, the 'Evening Echo', a man is celebrating his 100th birthday. He regularly plays the church organ for services, he's played the same organ since 1928.

All his 3 sons, and his wife, have pre-deceased him. It happens. I am sure he feels the same as I do - that life is for living, life goes on, you cannot let these tragedies destroy you. You have to carry on in their memory, do the things they would have done if they'd been spared, and in fact this is what I try to do.

Margaret

margaretclare

Errata wrote: »

I'd just like to make one point. Some people feel the government should pay for care because that's fair. Anyone who has a property worth £200k - not unexceptional in this day and age - and expects their care to be paid for through government taxes will actually be using the tax paid by the older people who don't need care. Is this fair? The majority of people work hard all their lives, and many people now in possession of an expensive property have not managed that by their hard work, it's because the housing market over the last 25 years or so has gone into orbit. Those who bought a house for a few thousand which is now worth a great many thousands have been lucky.

True. This 1930s bungalow was £58K in 1990 and I had a £45K mortgage on it.

It's now worth approx £175K. So even allowing for the lifetime mortgage, we've still got approx £100K that came from nowhere. DH and I are fortunate in that we're able to save (and yes, I know that many people can't, but neither have we been able to during all the years of raising our families!)

I can't imagine how or why that extra £100K is justified. I do feel sorry for young first-time buyers. I deplore the buy-to-let greed which may have pushed those prices to silly limits (among other factors).

Bogof_Babe, Liz died very very suddenly of an undiagnosed heart condition that she'd had since birth. It's operable now if discovered early, it was just never discovered, even though she led a very active life, a Naval Reservist, an archer, you name it.

Her love of England and the English countryside is one of the things that motivates me now. And her desire to live life to the full.

Margaret

Savvy_Sue

ceridwen wrote: »

....and now can we get back to the original point - ie MyRubyReds query as to whether it is possible to ease her mothers worries a bit by means of putting Rubys name on the deeds of her house as joint owner. A simple legal query - that I dont have the knowledge to answer - but hopefully someone else does - one way or t'other.

I did start, back in post 14, and recommended MyRubyRed to find previous posts on this topic which I'm sure have covered it in depth.

What I didn't spell out in detail was that I believe it makes a difference whether MyRubyRed actually lives in the house she might jointly own with her mother. It certainly makes a difference to the potential Capital Gains Tax liability when the house is eventually sold: if a house has been your main residence, there IS no CGT to pay. If it has NOT been your main residence, then the taxman gets a share.

To summarise, if MRR moves in with her mother (perhaps they already live together?) and they each own half the house, the situation is different to if MRR's mother transfers half the house to her now, but MRR lives elsewhere.

Whatever solution is chosen requires a lot of thought and will probably provoke further worry and anxiety - I know it would in our family. Which is why, since MRR's mother does not seem to WANT to move into a care home, I thought (and others agreed with me) that encouraging her to look at how she could stay in her OWN home for as long as possible might be a more useful approach, both short- and long-term.