sexual harassment on seetec course?

jobbingmusician

OP - I think you have done almost perfectly the right thing (I say 'almost' because the really perfect thing would have been to talk to SEETEC about it, but you have done the very next best thing.)

Do go and talk to the Papworth Trust and make your statement, and do let us know what happens (in particular, come back if we can support you in any way).

For clarity - remarks like those would be considered sexual harrassment is almost any setting. You are not over-reacting. (Except that they are idiots and it's not worth getting upset about anything they say. It IS worth reporting it, though!)

Malthusian

Undervalued wrote: »

If a formal complaint is made the people running the course will have ask the (alleged) perpetrators for their side of the story and they will no doubt deny it.

I disagree that there's no doubt. They may say something moronic like "yeah but it's just banter" and admitting it should be enough to have them ejected from the course for unacceptable behaviour, unless it is run by equally moronic people. They may say "we didn't say that" but stutter and look at their shoes and then cave in when asked a second time. Morons are not very good at lying. No matter what their response is there's no reason not to report it. If the OP doesn't care for her own sake then she should do it for the sake of the women they will harass in the future if no-one corrects their behaviour.

Undervalued

Malthusian wrote: »

I disagree that there's no doubt. They may say something moronic like "yeah but it's just banter" and admitting it should be enough to have them ejected from the course for unacceptable behaviour, unless it is run by equally moronic people. They may say "we didn't say that" but stutter and look at their shoes and then cave in when asked a second time. Morons are not very good at lying. No matter what their response is there's no reason not to report it. If the OP doesn't care for her own sake then she should do it for the sake of the women they will harass in the future if no-one corrects their behaviour.

OK, maybe I should have said "probably" rather than "no doubt" but may main point was that, as far as we know, the OP has no evidence. If she makes an accusation against two people and they both deny it and back each other up it will be difficult for the employer / training company to take any action.

GingerBob_3

marcarm wrote: »

Harassment is any form of unwanted and unwelcome behaviour which may range from mildly unpleasant remarks to physical violence.


from Bullyonline, my emphasis

A nice, tight definition then.

Guest101

I don't think any harassment is ok.


BUT I also think that people are generally too soft.


It would hardly be difficult to say: "I don't appreciate that kind of language/behaviours/vulgarity/etc. Stop it now"

Proxima_Centauri

I would agree you were right to flag this up with the course organisers. Also (not to sound paranoid but it's a very different world these days): As a precaution I would put your social media accounts into lockdown in case these lads don't take it very well and start to look for you or make trouble for you online.

sangie595

Undervalued wrote: »

OK, maybe I should have said "probably" rather than "no doubt" but may main point was that, as far as we know, the OP has no evidence. If she makes an accusation against two people and they both deny it and back each other up it will be difficult for the employer / training company to take any action.

No it won't. This is not a court of law. The training provider can decide that they believe her and not them. Just because there are two of them does not mean that they will be believed. Bullying and harassment are often done in secret, but that does not mean that people always get away with it.

daytona0

sangie595 wrote: »

And this is exactly why these things continue to happen to women, and why thickheads spend to much time using the "it's only banter" line.

This is a workplace. Not your living room and not the local pub. In a workplace there is never a context in which such language is appropriate. And the fact that worse things have been said in the past is no excuse for it to continue. There is no context. It is wrong. No more than, in the past, had someone said that to a young woman, it would have been right for her dad and her brothers to be waiting for you the next day to teach you a lesson you will never forget. That used to happen to. No excuse for it to continue to happen.

Personally, I doubt I would find it amusing in any context, but the workplace is for working - anything beyond that should be within limits of sociable behaviour. If you wouldn't walk up to a stranger and say it, it shouldn't be said in a workplace. Or, a better test might be, if you wouldn't walk up to a stranger and say it without expecting to get your lights punched out, you shouldn't say it - clearly the former test wouldn't work on idiots like these. Although I suspect that they are not nearly so "brave" in a situation where they don't know that the stranger won't be able to punch their lights out. That's the way of bullies.

I agree with you! That's the worst thing about it lol.

My point is akin to the old question;

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Just basically saying that you can say what you like to a consenting party, so long as nobody else is around to hear it That's a valid context. It isn't professional, but it [referring to my example] has not caused offense to any party!

OP is right to be offended and should follow advice given.

suki1964

daytona0 wrote: »

I agree with you! That's the worst thing about it lol.

My point is akin to the old question;

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Just basically saying that you can say what you like to a consenting party, so long as nobody else is around to hear it That's a valid context. It isn't professional, but it [referring to my example] has not caused offense to any party!

OP is right to be offended and should follow advice given.

Precisely

That sort of chat is not valid or welcome in the workplace

Just because so far you have not been caught , doesn't make it ok to do it with no ears around

Oh and yes I work as a chef and you hear the most filthy sexiest language you would ever hear. But anyone asking those sort of questions would be out the door without a reference

How you condone such behavior in a place of work I don't know

TBagpuss

DigForVictory wrote: »

cat777, you need to go in, you need to complete all the paperwork & you need to ask to stay on the course but without those two. Why should *their* shameful conduct cost you *your* education & development? You may not be worried about loosing your money, but as a forum we are. Education is what you undergo to get not just a job but the better jobs, so don;t let these idiots take it away from you.

Have you told the Papworth Trust folk about this? As I'd bet they'd be all for you getting the ongoing education & support & the two idiots getting a very solid lesson in acceptable conduct.

All the very best today &, I hope, with your ongoing education!

I agree with all of this.

At the very least, they should take steps to ensure that you can complete the course without harassment. Ideally that would mean moving the perpetrators, either off the course completely or to a different course.
If they are not prepared to do that then they should offer you the opportunity to transfer to the next available course, with no additional cost. However, I think that you would be entirely reasonable to tell them that you expect to be able to complete the course you singed up for and have started, and that they requires that they, rather than you, are moved.