Debit Card Transactions

mt99

Good, they have sent a reply.


I think in the nicest possible way they don't understand that if you don't have a lot of money the 'reservation', although not actually taken, does have an effect on your bank balance. I would reply nicely explaining that during the 2-4 days it can take for the reservation to be released, your bank balance takes a hit and you can't budget that way.


Explain that yes of course the reservation doesn't 'take' any money but it blocks access to those funds for a few days until the reservation is lifted. Thus for a short time they are double-charging you.

Melindray

I have explained this to them multiple times already ... and was reassured that I would not have to repeat myself *SIGH* ... one more time then I guess!

System

As i suspected, the retailer is the cause here

The fact missing is that people with limited funds tend not to go overdrawn in these situations - their cards get declined (probably with goods already enroute) meaning the retailer takes the hit.

It's actually slightly better if they are actually cancelling the first authorisation and not leaving it to expire but not as good as using the first one for the final transaction (like they should)

Hellzapoppin

I'm not sure who is to blame here, but I suspect that it's the bank at fault.

For example, they know they've authorised £100, store takes £50 using the same authorisation code, bank doesn't recognise this as being the same transaction but for a lesser amount and they're still expecting the £100 to debit.

Either Morrison's aren't sending the correct message saying that £50 is the final debit amount or the bank is receiving the message and not doing anything with it.

Melindray

The fact missing is that people with limited funds tend not to go overdrawn in these situations - their cards get declined (probably with goods already enroute) meaning the retailer takes the hit.

Yep, Morrisons have said the change in their T&Cs is to prevent failed payments from occurring.

The problem with the way they are doing this is that if the full estimated cost of my shopping is "reserved" by Morrisons, and they then debit me for the final actual cost of my shopping using a second transaction ... if I don't have enough money in my account to cover the cost of the actual debited amount and the cost of the money that has already been "reserved" and I no longer have access to, then the second payment, for the actual cost of my shop will fail and the order will be cancelled ... then I am in a position where I don't have the money that has been "reserved" by Morrisons, Morrisons will say I didn't have enough money to pay for my shopping even though they had an amount "reserved" already, Morrisons will cancel my order ... and I won't have any money or my shopping.

It isn't just being overdrawn that is of concern; I have direct debits set up on my bank account, if I don't have the funds to cover them because Morrisons insist on 'billing' me twice for the same groceries and then refunding one of my payments, I will incur bank charges.

Morrisons are adamant that it is my bank causing a problem. My bank say it is Morrisons causing the issue.

I've sent an email to Visa Europe this morning to see if they can shed any light on the matter.

jonesMUFCforever

Melindray wrote: »

Yep, Morrisons have said the change in their T&Cs is to prevent failed payments from occurring.

The problem with the way they are doing this is that if the full estimated cost of my shopping is "reserved" by Morrisons, and they then debit me for the final actual cost of my shopping using a second transaction ... if I don't have enough money in my account to cover the cost of the actual debited amount and the cost of the money that has already been "reserved" and I no longer have access to, then the second payment, for the actual cost of my shop will fail and the order will be cancelled ... then I am in a position where I don't have the money that has been "reserved" by Morrisons, Morrisons will say I didn't have enough money to pay for my shopping even though they had an amount "reserved" already, Morrisons will cancel my order ... and I won't have any money or my shopping.

It isn't just being overdrawn that is of concern; I have direct debits set up on my bank account, if I don't have the funds to cover them because Morrisons insist on 'billing' me twice for the same groceries and then refunding one of my payments, I will incur bank charges.

Morrisons are adamant that it is my bank causing a problem. My bank say it is Morrisons causing the issue.

I've sent an email to Visa Europe this morning to see if they can shed any light on the matter.

Can I suggest a solution for you?

Shop elsewhere or use a credit card.

Melindray

For anyone following this story, here is the latest update ...

I haven't had a response from Visa Europe as yet.

My last email to Morrisons has also not had a response despite them emailing me back very regularly (i.e. at least once a day, even on Sunday) for the last week.

I have found other organisations that I can approach about this too, in addition to the suggestions for 'the next step' made by mt99:

The Retail Ombudsman who can investigate complaints made directly to the retailer that have not been resolved through the retailer's complaints process.

Competition and Markets Authority who used to be Office of Fair Trading, and from what I have read on the subject there, I may be able to argue that Morrisons new online payment T&Cs are unfair contract terms.

Which? magazine who investigated/pressured ASDA when their online payments process caused a similar problem.

mt99

Let us know how it progresses. By the way I asked my brother who also shops online at Morrisons and he said they don't make a reservation they just debit the amount from his card.

King_Of_Fools

Posting links on behalf of Melindray:

Melindray wrote: »

The Retail Ombudsman who can investigate complaints made directly to the retailer that have not been resolved through the retailer's complaints process.

https://www.theretailombudsman.org.uk/

Melindray wrote: »

Competition and Markets Authority who used to be Office of Fair Trading, and from what I have read on the subject there, I may be able to argue that Morrisons new online payment T&Cs are unfair contract terms.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/competition-and-markets-authority

Melindray wrote: »

Which? magazine who investigated/pressured ASDA when their online payments process caused a similar problem.

https://conversation.which.co.uk/money/asda-charged-twice-online-shopping-order-bank-account/

Melindray

Had a further reply from Morrisons, arrived last night, picked it up this morning:


"Good evening XXX,

Thank you for your email, I am sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

As a senior member of the Management Team, I am currently looking into this in-depth for you so I am able to provide you with correct and final information around the Pre-Authorisation process specifically for yourself. I have gone through all your previous communication with us so I am up to date with the issues you have been experiencing.

So I am able to complete this with accuracy, please would you be able to let me know which bank you are with? This information will allow me to be more specific in my response.

I am sorry that you have received conflicting information previously and can assure you that I will provide you with definite information soon. I do not have an exact time scale, but I am in tomorrow and Tuesday to make sure that I am able to get this for you.

I look forward to hearing from you and will be in contact in due course.

Kind regards,

Mitch Lewin"


So now, apparently this needs looking into in even more depth ... it would seem that Morrisons do not understand their own payments process and the last week and all those communications were just a big waste of my time. *sigh*


Nothing from Visa yet, not holding my breath for that reply mind.

By the way I asked my brother who also shops online at Morrisons and he said they don't make a reservation they just debit the amount from his card.

See, Morrisons have repeatedly told me that they are applying this to all their online customers, and every single customer is having the full cost of their order "reserved" when the order is placed, and then "charged" when it is delivered. I don't know whether to believe them or not.