Microsoft should be totally ashamed - W10 uninvited massive 2 hour update is CR#P

S0litaire

agarnett

Hello again,

Just wanted to update all you folks with my latest observations of Microsoft W10 Anniversary Update and thank AndyPix and anyone else who said I should rapidly look at Thunderbird for an alternative email client to Windows Live Mail.

Firstly, a warning to any of you that might inadvertently get tempted to try Microsoft's W10 Reset facility. Better ignore the "keep personal files promise" and back up everything because I've tried it (what's the point of all these new features if you don't try them, eh?)

After the Anniversary Update, I got the machine working fairly reliably, but my Asus machine performance wasn't "all that" or maybe I was just suspicious that I was in a kind of limbo - neither a clean W10 install nor a complete break from W8.1 and the first version of W10.

Thankfully I was doubtful about the assurance that personal files would be retained during reset and made a copy of my Windows Live Mail files (they are of course "personal files" and are also my largest in terms of diskspace).

I can see that Microsoft have varied this feature again since I reset, but guess what? The in-betweeny version of Reset on my machine after the W10 Anniversary Update as promised didn't delete simple documents and spreadsheets and media files, but it did delete Windows Live Mail in its entireity, personal email storage and all - so anxious do Microsoft appear to be to get rid of it WLM! Having reread Microsoft's WLM download page, I note that at some stage Microsoft decided not to add W10 to the list of Windows versions it worked on. They don't say it does work or that it doesn't. They say it works on 8.1, but I don't remember being told that if I auto-upgraded my new laptop out of the box last autumn from 8.1 to W10 that I'd no longer be able to use WLM? Perhaps that's because it did work? Must've done, since I have been using it a year on W10! But that was then. Now is a whole year and the unexpected uninvited Windows Anniversary Update later.

Gee thanks Microsoft! I finally get the message. Microsoft doesn't want to be my friend. Microsoft doesn't really want to do email anymore. Microsoft does want me to give them access to my security details to every other email providers' accounts so they can go knocking on their server front doors using my login details from within their strange new W10 Mail App but sorry, I don't fancy that anymore. I finally checked it out (the "new" Windows Mail App that now comes with Windows 10). I found it absolutely appalling.

I found it fell over multiple times with the slightest puff, and I couldn't get it to sync with one IMAP4 account at a large email host provider but it seemed to sync ok with another at the same provider, and it looks totally unintuitive. Emails didn't display half the time in the view pane, else they just seemed never to complete the download. POP3 setup didn't seem to want to download and then remove emails from the server. In any sensible email client that would be a normal setting option, but I'll be blowed if it is obvious in the new W10 Mail App. If you want to customise port settings and the like I haven't a clue how, and am not particularly interested now. Attachments intermittently wouldn't download. Add as for multiple account handling, if adding more than a couple of email accounts, the interface becomes a confused mess. Who on earth designed that interface? Might it be they be folks who are lateral thinkers in the extreme, whose own experience of sent and received emails is that they use only one email account, and the emails are rarely more than tweet sized, and never contain large attachments? If your emails do contain attachments, then you might stay well away for that reason alone I think.

I installed Thunderbird, and hope this isn't a premature thumbs up, but I sighed with relief. It has the look of Outlook Express 6, and of the next interation after OE6 which was the "old" 'Windows Mail' and to an extent it is similar to the next one I was forced to move up to, Windows Live Mail - the one where support ends in January 2017 - I think the developer teams who created those old Microsoft offerings might have upped and left Microsoft to do the world a favour by launching Thunderbird? The likenesses are uncanny.

Despite the possible file size limitations I read about in Thunderbird, and might yet come up against, I think Thunderbird looks miles better than anything Microsoft are offering home users currently. So thanks again for those who said I should swap to it but perhaps didn't realise that it handles multiple email accounts and local folders in almost exactly the same style as I have been used to. Or maybe they did, but didn't get around to convincing me

Also today, I experienced my first W10 Anniversary Update blue screen of death, except they don't call it that anymore and put a pretty little QR code on the page for a few seconds while the machine restarts in case you are interested in the technicalities of why it crashed and have your QR code reader App on your phone open and ready to go at a moment's notice, as you probably do if you experience blue screens frequently - or maybe a pencil and paper and Google time later might be better if you are a quick reader and memoriser of error codes before the "preparing to restart" (or whatever it says) progress bar reaches 100%

Next big step for me then, maybe Linux Mint, eh? Which flavour? Cinnamon? Windows 10 is beginning to look like it might be a Deep Dream type platform. Far too much secret stuff going on behind the scenes, and far too little control is left for my liking, after most has involuntarily gone from my own hands. I used it for a year, but don't like where it is going and so Microsoft is definitely off my Christmas card list.

Oh, and one last thing about the antivirus incompatibility problem with Windows 10 Anniversary Update. I decided to let the Reset default the antivirus to Windows Defender to see how that went - has to be compatible with W10 right? Microsoft with Microsoft? Or rather I didn't "just let it" - it just did! But I have just noticed after 24 hours of running without Kaspersky, prompted by a W10 notification that appeared just late on Wednesday, that I've been running with a Windows Defender virus definition database that is nearly 4 months old - what gives?? Why hasn't it auto-updated if Microsoft are so keen to do the protection bit in the place of my Kaspersky which the W10 Reset of course deleted because it clearly wasn't personal ?

Jivesinger

agarnett wrote: »

Firstly, a warning to any of you that might inadvertently get tempted to try Microsoft's W10 Reset facility. Better ignore the "keep personal files promise" and back up everything because I've tried it (what's the point of all these new features if you don't try them, eh?)
...
Thankfully I was doubtful about the assurance that personal files would be retained during reset and made a copy of my Windows Live Mail files (they are of course "personal files"

There's no 'of course' about it.

I don't use WLM but I imagine you're talking about files which are created and maintained (you could say 'owned') by WLM. They aren't personal files which you personally saved in a folder of your choosing.

So if you delete WLM (which of course a W10 Reset does) then you'd expect all associated files which that piece of software owns to be deleted too.

Although they may not be deleted - have you looked in windows.old?

agarnett wrote: »

in the place of my Kaspersky which the W10 Reset of course deleted because it clearly wasn't personal ?

W10 Reset deletes all software so it deletes Kaspersky - why wouldn't it?

agarnett

Hello Jivesinger - you up late too? It's not necessarily healthy you know

Yes I do think email storage database files are personal files. Why would you try to argue they aren't? Surely you must agree that thesedays email files are generally more important than other types of personal document because they are the main medium for liaising with almost all service suppliers?

Yep I had a good hunt* including in Windows.old but no sign that W10 preserved them anywhere, I'm afraid. As you probably know, the Windows Live Mail main storage database can be located anywhere I choose ... the default is C:\Users\Agarnett\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows Live Mail but you can change it to anywhere you like under File/Options/Mail/Advanced/Maintenance/Store Folder.
So that's that! They may be created by WLM with my assistance, but WLM gives me the 'Maintenance' button (so you could say and I do say, the files under that button are owned by me!) And WLM doesn't own it if it contains my emails and I am allowed to put them where I like. I could set it to be on a removable USB drive for all I know - I'd try it for you if it wasn't so late, and I'm a bit bored with it now.

*Edit: Jivesinger, I have just had one more look, because there was something odd about the free space on my C: drive (less than there ought to be now) and I suddenly realised that the AppData files are hidden by default. So I unhid hidden files and had another look in Windows.old and I am pretty sure I have found my original emails stored in C:\Windows.old\Users\Agarnett\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows Live Mail which I suppose is fair enough if it is them. I am pretty certain I had moved it to but if I had left it as the default Store Folder then I suppose if WLM is going to be deleted by the Reset then the next best logical final resting place for those emails is where they seem to be at in Windows.old. I'll have a play at relinking to them later today and report back.

So thanks for the pointer - glad I remembered the hidden files bit! I personally always have hidden files shown and all file type extensions too. Not for everyone to fiddle under the bonnet like that, but I have always felt safe doing so until I lately started asking of W10 "Err - what's it doing now?"

As for my antivirus, I am not really arguing strongly that Kaspersky should have been retained, but I am a bit annoyed that there were no in my face warnings about an defective Antivirus installation until several hours after the reset - maybe a whole day - i.e. Microsoft Windows Defender being way out of date. Getting on for 4 months out of date as it turned out (29/5/2016 it said)! Before the W10 Anniversary Update, I recall W10 was happy to scream at me the moment that Kaspersky was a day out of date! Tonight, it was just one of three or for odd notifications of what I have been led to expect are of no particular import numbered as new notifications. Most of those down there are of no screamingly urgent priority in my short experience since the W10 Anniversary Update.

AndyPix

Long story short - You were advised to try an alternative.
Ranted on and on and on, then tried it and realised the advice was valid .

agarnett wrote: »

I suddenly realised that the AppData files are hidden by default..

Computing 101

agarnett

If you like, but I can't say I enjoy your flippant take on it, AndyPix.

Windows Live Mail disappearing into my Computing 101 if you like, you will recall was just the latest in the list of unexpected events I have encountered with W10 Anniversary Update.

I have no idea how many variants of Windows.old I may have had before I was encouraged to try the W10 Reset feature for the first time ever, but one warning I did receive before I clicked OK on it, was that I would now never be able to find my way back to W8.1 if I did.

I shall not be throwing in my entire lot with Mozilla Thunderbird email client until I have given it a thorough testing, but it looks promising. Whilst I like the look of Thunderbird, the settings have to be learned and the way it stores the emails is new so thinking ahead about how to back those up so that they could be used if necessary in ANOther email client app in the future, is not for the faint-hearted. I am still relying on my backed up WLM storage as a support hand rail until I understand the new steps up to Thunderbird more fully at least.

And winding right back to the beginning of this thread - particularly the best part of two hours it took for the involuntary W10 Anniversary Update to declare itself complete and for me to sort out the first loose ends, one now wonders whether it was my substantial WLM store folder (some GB) which was being moved aside and then and then put back again that was taking all that time compared to other users' experiences with smaller email archives.

PS I had to leave my PC on when I went to bed last night because it had not finished downloading and updating Windows Defender with the latest virus database. It looked like it was stuck at around 75% of the download after half an hour. I decided not to interrupt it as currently it is my only antivirus until I hear that Kaspersky Labs have got full W10 compatibility again.

You have to admit that when Microsoft's own Anti-virus warns at the top of the Windows Defender App window that "Your PC is potentially unprotected", which is how I had to leave it last night, it is a bit worrying. However when I switched on this morning it had satisfied itself it was up to date.

AndyPix

agarnett wrote: »

If you like, but I can't say I enjoy your flippant take on it, AndyPix.

Windows Live Mail disappearing into your Computing 101 if you like, you will recall was just the latest in the list of unexpected events I have encountered with W10 Anniversary Update.

.

My post was not for your enjoyment, I think its time to stop these wafflings now and make a new post if you have any more problems.


Applications storing their data in the appdata folder that is hidden by default should hardly have been a surprise if you had even 1% of the computer aptitude you report to have.


Glad you have found a suitable alternative, and if you have any problems let us know.
Im slightly less keen to keep hearing about every minor detail and surprise that you come accross on the way though

almillar

If your email storage is using up the most space on your computer, you need a pretty heavy duty email app. 'Mail' (W10 built in) is not that, and shouldn't be judged against that requirement. IMO you've got away with WLM for this long. Where WLM stored it's files is, again, not W10's fault.

RumRat

If your Kaspersky isn't working then just update to the latest product (2017).
The only versions that were deleted were the ones that Kaspersky decided not to support in Windows 10.
Again, not MS fault.....

AndyPix

Agarnett >>