Microsoft should be totally ashamed - W10 uninvited massive 2 hour update is CR#P

RumRat

agarnett wrote: »

Sorry guys - I'm all for playing nicely if you want to do the same, but I think I should break up this cosy little game you think you can play when someone like me "noisily" complains, and when you think you've done your little suppression bit and can now whitewash the thread.

This thread will never be an opportunity for you to gloss over the problem with the Microsoft's lazy rollout of the W10 Anniversary Update.

AndyPix, in the other thread you urged that you had a "site" where no less than 117 machines had been updated with W10 Anniversary Update without problems- To use your favorite phrase, fairplay to you and your colleagues for succeeding in what you get paid for. But then you belittled the "noise" that some users with problems made.

What you didn't say in the other thread is that 117 machines would have largely have been set up afresh exactly the same way, probably from a standard image on largely identical machines, certainly after a lot of testing and compatibility research by your team, and of course you are being paid to ensure that they worked perfectly first time - with your job very much on the line if you had just whacked out the update the way Microsoft did to us Home users.

You also confirmed when quizzed that the updates you used were certainly not the native/raw update we got landed with out of the blue.

Rum Rat also urged that he'd done 6 or 7 now with few if any problems he wishes to publish. 6 or 7 Home Editions on assorted computers of different manufacture and original W10 install date and different w7/w8 licensing routes to the original W10 installation? Methinks that an unlikely achievement with no problems encountered.

Standardisation across 100 machines coupled with your Microsoft and IBM and other maintenance contracts makes your corporate upgrade task a relative doddle compared to many Home Users.

You also get to choose when it happens, and you get paid to ensure it is right first time, or else.

What relevance is your experience of the corporate W10 Updgrade task to the vast majority of W10 users in the UK and world generally on W10 Home Edition such that you choose to spend time in your corporate day coming to a public, not corporate website spouting propaganda along the lines of "move along now - nothing to see"?

Your worldview on this is fairly typical I think of IT personnel generally. Perhaps it is an affliction nothing any of us would say is "your fault" unless you are being deliberately mischievous, but it is bloody frustrating when you dis users who do actually know enough to be rightfully making a noise about the problems they have had landed upon them, especially when it relates to the lack of foresight by paid professionals or deliberate shortcuts by their superiors. You might not need Microsoft to pull their socks up, but W10 Home users most definitely do.

From your posts earlier today, it seems you feel the need to protect Microsoft from my "noise"? I am intrigued to know why exactly would that be? I can guess a little of it I think - I alluded to it once before - your users read MSE. The slightest "noise" here on MSE about what a pile of cack W10 1607 or 14393 might be might suit some of your complaining users who use it to whip you.

Well sorry, if that's partly the reason, that's your problem - you get paid to deal with and service the needs of difficult users. We Home users have needs too, and corporate spin is not one of them.

You have had problems, probably of your own making, with Windows10 and you are a bit miffed about it. Fine, inferring that I'm lying, just because I haven't had any problems, not fine.
Trolling is usually the domain of the younger element, unless you are misinforming people about which generation you sit in, you should have grown out of the need to get your kicks in this way.
I don't think it's your view that W10 is bad, that anyone has a problem with, it's the attitude that you display and your absurdly long posts.
Your rant will have no effect on MS or W10, so seems to only be a vanity project. Good luck with it....;)

agarnett

Trolling is a word most often used by those who have no better argument to put forward, and who may be short on vocabulary.

There's nothing absurd about a long post - it's only the nudging of a bunch of free electrons down a pipe - what is absurd is that those it seems to astonish most and who claim it as absurd, are those most likely to leap straight in to dissect it and try to refute it.

I never said you were lying. I said you didn't publish any problems you had and that it might be a little unlikely there were none if you had applied W10 Anniversary Update to a valid sample of random existing installations - in fact with a sample of 5 or 6 machines each with their own blend of hardware and original W10 installation dates it would be most unlikely that you would have zero problems.

If there was an element of standardisation in the 5 or 6 upgrades that you actually said you did, (by the fact that you "did" them, and that Microsoft didn't automatically do them, I can wonder can't I if they were actually Home Edition installations?) then I can easily grant, as I easily granted AndyPix his 117, that they could have been problem free by your design, just as his were problem free by his team's design. If so, well done!

With no problems reported, I can infer that you probably had the luxury of planning the upgrades to be as problem free as possible, n'est-ce pas?

So, humour us, were they W10 Pro upgrades on a random sample of previous machines and/or were you working to an SOP in a commercial environment? We wouldn't want to mislead the Home Edition users with your Pro or commercial experience, would we?

RumRat

agarnett wrote: »

Trolling is a word most often used by those who have no better argument to put forward, and who may be short on vocabulary.

There's nothing absurd about a long post - it's only the nudging of a bunch of free electrons down a pipe - what is absurd is that those it seems to astonish most and who claim it as absurd, are those most likely to leap straight in to dissect it and try to refute it.

I never said you were lying. I said you didn't publish any problems you had and that it might be a little unlikely there were none if you had applied W10 Anniversary Update to a valid sample of random existing installations - in fact with a sample of 5 or 6 machines each with their own blend of hardware and original W10 installation dates it would be most unlikely that you would have zero problems.

If there was an element of standardisation in the 5 or 6 upgrades that you actually said you did, (by the fact that you "did" them, and that Microsoft didn't automatically do them, I can wonder can't I if they were actually Home Edition installations?) then I can easily grant, as I easily granted AndyPix his 117, that they could have been problem free by your design. If so, well done!

With no problems reported, I can infer that you probably had the luxury of planning the upgrades to be as problem free as possible, n'est-ce pas?

So, humour us, were they W10 Pro upgrades on a random sample of previous machines and/or were you working to an SOP in a commercial environment? We wouldn't want to mislead the Home Edition users with your Pro or commercial experience, would we?

A Troll is a Troll, whatever your views of the definition.:D
Total is now 5 home two Pro (on home machines)......4 Windows 7 machines and 3 Windows 8.1....5 different makes and 3 Desktops and 4 laptops.
So your theories are another busted flush.
Yes, you are in the minority, I know that doesn't help your situation, but, it might be time for you to repair your machine and just move on. All this angst can't be good for you....:)

almillar

RAID is not a backup.

RAID 1 looks like a form of backup to me (2 HDDs, kept the same) - albeit with the risk of the 2nd drive being in same machine as the first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

Rum Rat also urged that he'd done 6 or 7 now with few if any problems he wishes to publish. 6 or 7 Home Editions on assorted computers of different manufacture and original W10 install date and different w7/w8 licensing routes to the original W10 installation? Methinks that an unlikely achievement with no problems encountered.

You really don't like W10, and have a skewed sense of reality, don't you? You've had a problem on your ONE installation, with out of date software ceasing to work, so you can't believe that RumRat can do 6 or 7 trouble free?! Really? Just for the record, I count 4, and I'm a home user. Believe it!

I urge you to spend your time researching alternative email clients to Windows Live Mail 2012 (I'll call it WLM2012 from now to save my fingers) instead of arguing on here with 'IT Pros' who you call out of touch with users. If you continue as you are, you'll be back here blaming MS for breaking your computer at the next big upgrade. You've been warned that support for WLM was ending, you've broken your computer, and yet you still refuse to fix the problem.

AndyPix

almillar wrote: »

RAID 1 looks like a form of backup to me (2 HDDs, kept the same) - albeit with the risk of the 2nd drive being in same machine as the first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID
.

RAID will save you in the scenario that one of your disks fails - It simply carries on as normal using the other.


But it does not allow you to go back in time, so for a virus infection or knackered driver installation it is no good as a backup.


Further reading : http://www.petemarovichimages.com/2013/11/24/never-use-a-raid-as-your-backup-system/

agarnett

almillar wrote: »

RAID 1 looks like a form of backup to me (2 HDDs, kept the same) - albeit with the risk of the 2nd drive being in same machine as the first.

I am glad you queried that assertion almillar, and not me! I was thinking much the same.

You really don't like W10, and have a skewed sense of reality, don't you? You've had a problem on your ONE installation, with out of date software ceasing to work, so you can't believe that RumRat can do 6 or 7 trouble free?! Really? Just for the record, I count 4, and I'm a home user. Believe it!

Again, almillar, you have like Rum Rat had the complete luxury of "doing" the upgrades in your own time!

I have never said that I didn't "like" Windows 10. It is clear that what I don't like is the lazy Microsoft Windows 10 Anniversary Update rollout. Not the intended features that may come with it (which like most users, I shall probably remain ignorant of forever), but the manner in which they have attempted the forced update with flakey update files, and no care for those who have metered connections and hadn't anticipated they needed to do something to stop the 4GB tsunami crashing through our beachhut existencies before we'd seen any warning and made it to safer free WiFi territory!


I didn't start the thread to get something off my chest. I started it to protest and to warn others. I actually care about those who are not as lucky as me in terms of resourcefulness to get out of a sticky situation. Unlike some who wish to deny the problems because they are also resourceful or organised sufficiently to control their own destinies, the pros for want of other words, I can actually envisage myself as one of the less fortunate of which I have good reason to believe there will be many.

My personal laptop and what I have installed on it is by no means a unique problem to W10 Anniversary Update, unless you want to get anal about it. It is a very common brand, so is my antivirus, and it is all very recent too. Without tongue in cheek, I can easily assert that it is indeed probably one of the top 5% cleanest Home Edition installs in the world because I keep it so, and I don't have a bunch of weird and wonderful applications running on it requiring special care and research when considering compatibility issues. You have no reason whatever to suggest otherwise.

I urge you to spend your time researching alternative email clients to Windows Live Mail 2012 (I'll call it WLM2012 from now to save my fingers) instead of arguing on here with 'IT Pros' who you call out of touch with users.

Well you can urge, same as AndyPix urged me to start a back up regime, but you must surely appreciate that these things are sticking plaster ideas well after I have already healed my own wounds, and you aren't even aiming the plasters at where I was bleeding last Sunday morning! Sure, since AndyPix had gone to so much trouble to climb down and engage, I thought it would be interesting to explore various backup ideas just to see how far Microsoft has brought it "straight out of the box" so to speak, and that was interesting, if not still beyond most Home users to fully understand their options.

If you continue as you are, you'll be back here blaming MS for breaking your computer at the next big upgrade.

I'm not blaming them for breaking my computer - I am blaming them for causing me to have to be very resourceful in order to tidy up after their lazy update implementation.

You've been warned that support for WLM was ending,

Er ... sorry, Microsoft has not approached me or given me any dialog warnings or emailed me about that - I discovered it by being resourceful and reading around the subject! You will only see the warning if you now go hunting for it afresh to download from Microsoft - but you can still download it.

... you've broken your computer,

Don't talk rot - it isn't broken! It had just been carelessly misconfigured by Microsoft after they unilaterally decided to update a computer that was working just fine and stole the best part of two hours of my computer's time and even then made a muck of it!

... and yet you still refuse to fix the problem.

I don't have a problem to be fixed currently other than the doubt about using Microsoft Edge and the doubt about Webcam security which hopefully both Kaspersky Labs and Microsoft are beavering away to fix as we speak! Oh and the Asus Touchpad thing that I am not sure about - but I can't do anything about those three things, can I, just wait for the further corrective updates?

I free-updated my Kaspersky Internet Security from 2016 to 2017 last night as it seemed from the long list of W10 incompatibility problems listed on K's website, that the list for 2017 was shorter

If Microsoft messes me up again on a Sunday morning uninvited, then yep, you might see me here again telling the world about it.

Fair play?

indesisiv

@agarnett like the others here I have not had problems with any windows 10 anniversary updates either.
Personally my 2 laptops and a desktop have updated without any problems at all. I have had a few people moaning that it took a while on their computers when they restarted but none that I know of that has anything that doesn't work now.
Although one does have a strange issue with resizing the icons to a larger size randomly, but I have not checked this out properly yet and knowing the user it could easily be him that is doing it.

agarnett wrote: »

I don't have a problem to be fixed currently other than the doubt about using Microsoft Edge

I can't comment on edge as I do not know of anyone who uses it at all.

onomatopoeia99

almillar wrote: »

RAID 1 looks like a form of backup to me (2 HDDs, kept the same) - albeit with the risk of the 2nd drive being in same machine as the first.

I know what RAID is and don't need a wikipedia link to explain it My server has a pair of SAS disks in RAID 1 and four SATA drives on the second channel of the card in RAID 5. These give redundancy in the event of a single drive failure in either array, but what they don't do is protect me against accidental deletion of the data, the house burning down or something like cryptolocker encrypting all my files. As I said, RAID is not a backup.


I have three physical machines running Windows 10 here at home by the way (home built desktop, HP Z800 workstation, Dell laptop), and at work I have my (self-built) desktop and two VMs under ESXi, one of which runs the insider build. So far no problems of the kind described. "Work" is not a corporate environment, it's a small office with no IT department. Doubtless I lack the OP's experience of being a very seasoned user though.

Fightsback

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

I know what RAID is and don't need a wikipedia link to explain it My server has a pair of SAS disks in RAID 1 and four SATA drives on the second channel of the card in RAID 5.

RAID 5 is not recommended, use RAID 6 or 10 instead.

Google for explanations why.

almillar

agarnett

but you must surely appreciate that these things are sticking plaster ideas well after I have already healed my own wounds

I don't appreciate that, no. I'm focusing on your problem with WLM2012, which is no longer supported. You seem to have used the sticking plaster this time, but the wound will simply open up again next time MS dares to update the OS. You'll need more plasters again, as I warned you in my last thread. WLM2012 is dead, infected and horrible. You need a TRANSPLANT to another email program, or this will happen again. And you'll blame MS. And it'll be YOUR fault.

I discovered it by being resourceful and reading around the subject!

You think you're so resourceful! You clicked my link!

Asus Touchpad

Don't try to blame hardware problems on them!

hopefully both Kaspersky Labs and Microsoft
...
I free-updated my Kaspersky Internet Security from 2016 to 2017 last night as it seemed from the long list of W10 incompatibility problems listed on K's website, that the list for 2017 was shorter

Just Kasperksy. Please confirm that you understand that it's not MS's job to make its OS compatible with programmes, it's for that developer to be compatible with Windows. Especially for system stuff like an anti virus, being up to date is very important.

If Microsoft messes me up again on a Sunday morning uninvited, then yep, you might see me here again telling the world about it.
Fair play?

Disconnect the computer on Saturday night to guarantee happiness for all!

onomatopoeia99

I know what RAID is and don't need a wikipedia link to explain it

I thought so, but you're not the only one reading, I had to look up which RAID number had was the redundancy one, and others would find the link useful.