Restaurants - please ask who gets the tips

Detroit

JReacher1 wrote: »

You're wrong but you're very stubborn so won't admit it. It's how the internet works

So I will end with one final question...., you seem to admit that some waitresses do receive a direct wage of $2.13. You must therefore agree that these people should receive tips as they're on a pittance.

How would you know which American waitresses are on $2.13 and which are on your made up $11 direct wage? I would argue you wouldn't know so should always tip as if the waitress was on $2.13

Therefore your original point which seemed to be that on average American waitresses earn a decent salary is completely irrelevant.

If you can see yourself to agree with me here we can all go to bed

I'm sorry, I can't agree with you when I think your interpretation of the article is incorrect.
This isn't to be difficult, to score points, or because I'm afraid to admit to being wrong.
I genuinely do not believe you are interpreting the article correctly.

Obviously I don't dispute that some staff are on the lower amount, the article I posted said so. And of course they should receive more.
And yes, when I lived in the U.S., I did tip, because it was a necessary evil.

I have at no point said I didn't tip in the U.S., just not necessarily a set percentage, as for an expensive family meal, the amount I would be paying was disproportionate to the service I'd received. Many of the people I know feel likewise.

Tipping in the UK is a different matter.

My argument is, and has been throughout, that I do not like the custom. I won't repeat my reasons, they're in the thread already.

JReacher1

Detroit wrote: »

I'm sorry, I can't agree with you when I think your interpretation of the article is incorrect.
This isn't to be difficult, to score points, or because I'm afraid to admit to being wrong.
I genuinely do not believe you are interpreting the article correctly.

Obviously I don't dispute that some staff are on the lower amount, the article I posted said so. And of course they should receive more.
And yes, when I lived in the U.S., I did tip, because it was a necessary evil.

I have at no point said I didn't tip in the U.S., just not necessarily a set percentage, as for an expensive family meal, the amount I would be paying was disproportionate to the service I'd received. Many of the people I know feel likewise.

Tipping in the UK is a different matter.

My argument is, and has been throughout, that I do not like the custom. I won't repeat my reasons, they're in the thread already.

Yes I didn't think you would agree with me. It's what I expected :rotfl:

You've not explained what the point of your $11 an hour post was at it reads as a reason not to tip in America. You've now said that people who earn less than $11 an hour should receive higher tips but not clarified how you distinguish between the lower and higher earning direct wage waitresses.

Detroit

JReacher1 wrote: »

Yes I didn't think you would agree with me. It's what I expected :rotfl:

You've not explained what the point of your $11 an hour post was at it reads as a reason not to tip in America. You've now said that people who earn less than $11 an hour should receive higher tips but not clarified how you distinguish between the lower and higher earning direct wage waitresses.

I gave the average in response to a post that said U.S. waiting staff earned a pittance.
If that's the average, and I didn't make it up, it's in the article, then clearly many don't earn a pittance.

How can I distinguish between the high and low earners?

Well, if I was of a mind to, I could research. I could also check out the establishments if they were chains.
Also you acquire some local knowledge and get to know the type of employers the local independents are.

However, in truth, I never actually bothered with any of this. I would tip a token amount as was conventional, without any real thought for how much the server was paid.

In all truth, I didn't give it much thought until coming here, where I think the culture is much better for staff and customer.

JReacher1

Detroit wrote: »

I gave the average in response to a post that said U.S. waiting staff earned a pittance.
If that's the average, and I didn't make it up, it's in the article, then clearly many don't earn a pittance.

How can I distinguish between the high and low earners?

Well, if I was of a mind to, I could research. I could also check out the establishments if they were chains.
Also you acquire some local knowledge and get to know the type of employers the local independents are.

However, in truth, I never actually bothered with any of this. I would tip a token amount as was conventional, without any real thought for how much the server was paid.

In all truth, I didn't give it much thought until coming here, where I think the culture is much better for staff and customer.

You posted the $11 an hour quote to say that the basic salary of a waitress wasn't that bad. In reality (and I know you refuse to admit you're wrong despite the numerous links I have posted) they do earn a pittance.

Even with tips in a country where the average salary is around $50k earning just over $20k is not a good wage.

AubreyMac

I think it should be illegal to automatically add it to the bill, it should always be left up to the customer as to how much they want to tip.


It is true people ought to find out where tip money goes to. I live in London where there are plenty of restaurants everywhere. Often when I ask, tip money goes into a common pot and they don't get tips paid by card.


When I worked weekends in a restaurant when I was a student, tips only went to full time staff yet it's weekends where it was most busy. Of course this caused much resentment and lowered work morale.


I think tipping can get very ridiculous, I went to a bar recently and my group had our drinks on a tab where we went up to order and collect drinks. At the end when we asked for our bill I was surprised to find a service charge there - !!!!!! what service? we got the drinks ourselves. We asked for this to be removed but this did lead to questions as though we have to justify why we don't want to pay service.

csgohan4

JReacher1 wrote: »

You posted the $11 an hour quote to say that the basic salary of a waitress wasn't that bad. In reality (and I know you refuse to admit you're wrong despite the numerous links I have posted) they do earn a pittance.

Even with tips in a country where the average salary is around $50k earning just over $20k is not a good wage.

So really it should be the employer who should be made to be accountable and not the customer who should be 'forced' to TIP as it is their custom.

I don't really care what people think of me, it's my money and I tip when I want, how much I want, who are you to tell me this is custom or not.

Now if it's law then that is a different matter.

Your basically following the herd mindlessly and appear to be on a morally high horse thinking your better than everyone because you throw in your 2 cents in. Without thinking are you doing it because everyone else does or are doing it because they deserve it.

I don't tip for bad service period.. I do tip when it's good service. Just because it's been this way shouldn't mean it should be this way.

People being paid low wages is not my problem, don't blame the customer, but the employer who works them to the bone and pays them low wages.

JReacher1

csgohan4 wrote: »

So really it should be the employer who should be made to be accountable and not the customer who should be 'forced' to TIP as it is their custom.

I don't really care what people think of me, it's my money and I tip when I want, how much I want, who are you to tell me this is custom or not.

Now if it's law then that is a different matter.

Your basically following the herd mindlessly and appear to be on a morally high horse thinking your better than everyone because you throw in your 2 cents in. Without thinking are you doing it because everyone else does or are doing it because they deserve it.

I don't tip for bad service period.. I do tip when it's good service. Just because it's been this way shouldn't mean it should be this way.

People being paid low wages is not my problem, don't blame the customer, but the employer who works them to the bone and pays them low wages.

You fundamentally don't seem to get the point that applying UK tipping customs to the USA is unacceptable.

I do tip in the UK (just tipped 15% for my lunch) but I accept that it is less critical in the UK due to minimum wage legislation that means every employee will earn an ok wage. Therefore although I don't agree with not tipping in the UK I can see the argument why people don't.

In the USA this is a completely different situation. The whole service industry is based around a tipping culture and it is expected that you will tip when in America. This is why wages are kept low. Even Detroit who disagrees with me on most things accepts the fact that when you are in America you should tip.

It all goes back to a lack of education on your own part where you either don't accept or refuse to accept that not every country in the world is the same as the UK.

If this is how you want to conduct yourself then that is fine and thankfully you are thick skinned so don't mind wandering from country to country offending people as you go

csgohan4

JReacher1 wrote: »

You fundamentally don't seem to get the point that applying UK tipping customs to the USA is unacceptable.

I do tip in the UK (just tipped 15% for my lunch) but I accept that it is less critical in the UK due to minimum wage legislation that means every employee will earn an ok wage. Therefore although I don't agree with not tipping in the UK I can see the argument why people don't.

In the USA this is a completely different situation. The whole service industry is based around a tipping culture and it is expected that you will tip when in America. This is why wages are kept low. Even Detroit who disagrees with me on most things accepts the fact that when you are in America you should tip.

It all goes back to a lack of education on your own part where you either don't accept or refuse to accept that not every country in the world is the same as the UK.

If this is how you want to conduct yourself then that is fine and thankfully you are thick skinned so don't mind wandering from country to country offending people as you go

I'm glad we agree, while I do tip in the states, it's generally on principle rather than obligation.

Offending people or not is a different matter and personal preference. I am not a charity nor made of money either.

It is the employment system to blame for works to depend so much on tip, that is obvious.

Pollycat

I've only read the first post so don't know why the latest posts are discussing tipping in the USA :huh: but if we ever pay for a meal with a credit card, we always leave a cash tip as that stands at least some chance of getting to the servers.

I believe that Jack none Reacher (the 6' 5" 220-250lb 50" chest version, that is) always leaves a tip.

jamiehelsinki

I occasionally leave the change but don't feel obliged to. I use this same principle on holiday, usually in Europe.

I did tip in the US because I know it's different over there, but always thought the mimimum wages over there were determined by the state you were in. I know in San Francisco the minimum wage is quite good so guess it's the same for all of California.

As a country the US is at the top table but I think the average working person is probably better off here. On the other hand a high achiever would probably do better over there. I base that assumption on family I have living over there, I accept this could be flawed information though.