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Restaurants - please ask who gets the tips
Comments
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U.S. bureau of labour statistics. Can't post link, but you can Google it yourself.
Anyway, think about it, if $11 per hour is inclusive of tips as you claim, not everyone in the U.S. is tipping are they?
If they were, even at 10%, never mind the higher percentages suggested, the hourly rate would be much higher.
So either everyone isn't tipping, or the $11 doesn't include tips. You can't have it both ways.
And if, as I understand from the official source of cited above, this is a rate of pay, then it's not exactly a 'pittance'.
Put your hands up.0 -
U.S. bureau of labour statistics. Can't post link, but you can Google it yourself.
Anyway, think about it, if $11 per hour is inclusive of tips as you claim, not everyone in the U.S. is tipping are they?
If they were, even at 10%, never mind the higher percentages suggested, the hourly rate would be much higher.
So either everyone isn't tipping, or the $11 doesn't include tips. You can't have it both ways.
And if, as I understand from the official source of cited above, this is a rate of pay, then it's not exactly a 'pittance'.
It is inclusive of tips...
Your maths make absolutely no sense. You don't know how many customers a waitress will serve in an hour and tips are shared anyway.
The average salary is worked out on wage and tips and divided by the number of hours worked
Without know these metrics how can you work out how much someone has got in tips.0 -
It is inclusive of tips...
Your maths make absolutely no sense. You don't know how many customers a waitress will serve in an hour and tips are shared anyway.
The average salary is worked out on wage and tips and divided by the number of hours worked
Without know these metrics how can you work out how much someone has got in tips.
One of your own links has a waitress describing her job. As its a link you provided, I assume you consider it reputable?
Her experience is included as being representative of her job by the site you recommend.
She states that a team of 4 would serve 300 people in an average shift.
If we take the average meal price as a conservative $20, (there is data on this which actually puts the average as much higher, the cheapest state to eat, Michigan, has an average dine out cost of $28, but ill err on the side of caution)
And take the average tip as 10% (again, conservative by your standards), this is $2 per head x 75 per waitress=$150 in tips per shift, this is clearly more than $11 per hour, without including any basic salary from the employer, no?
There isn't an issue with my 'maths' as you call it.
The issue is that you are posting your, at times mutually exclusive, opinions as though they are fact, and dismissing any evidence that suggests otherwise.
And before you say the waiter doesn't get to keep their tips, they are shared, this is categorically not my experience in the U.S., although my 'evidence' is anecdotal from observations and from family and friends, so you will no doubt disregard it.
However, you did also insist that all tips were shared in the UK, and the poster on here who worked in the Harvester has stated this wasn't her experience.
Put your hands up.0 -
One of your own links has a waitress describing her job. As its a link you provided, I assume you consider it reputable?
Her experience is included as being representative of her job by the site you recommend.
She states that a team of 4 would serve 300 people in an average shift.
If we take the average meal price as a conservative $20, (there is data on this which actually puts the average as much higher, the cheapest state to eat, Michigan, has an average dine out cost of $28, but ill err on the side of caution)
And take the average tip as 10% (again, conservative by your standards), this is $2 per head x 75 per waitress=$150 in tips per shift, this is clearly more than $11 per hour, without including any basic salary from the employer, no?
There isn't an issue with my 'maths' as you call it.
The issue is that you are posting your, at times mutually exclusive, opinions as though they are fact, and dismissing any evidence that suggests otherwise.
You haven't produced any evidence apart from one link several pages ago about a banks survey on tips.
I'm worried that maths isn't your strongest subject. You don't seem to understand how averages work. Say hypothetically that what you posted above is right (and it may well be). All that means is that this waitress earns more than the average of $11. This is not true for every waitress in America.
Some waitresses will work in a restaurant where say they deal with only 30 customers in a night. They will earn less than $11 an hour.
I've posted a few links that all say the average salary of a waitress is made up of tips and salary. Please post a reputable link that specifically states the average salary of $11 does not include tips.
Thanks.0 -
You haven't produced any evidence apart from one link several pages ago about a banks survey on tips.
I'm worried that maths isn't your strongest subject. You don't seem to understand how averages work. Say hypothetically that what you posted above is right (and it may well be). All that means is that this waitress earns more than the average of $11. This is not true for every waitress in America.
Some waitresses will work in a restaurant where say they deal with only 30 customers in a night. They will earn less than $11 an hour.
I've posted a few links that all say the average salary of a waitress is made up of tips and salary. Please post a reputable link that specifically states the average salary of $11 does not include tips.
Thanks.
I posted an example from your link. If you weren't convinced of its accuracy, it may have been better not to have offered it.
I do indeed understand how averages work. However, I think you are maybe struggling with the concept of 'representative'. Where case studies are used on these sites they are usually chosen because they are typical examples representative of the job in question.
Theoretically, yes, there could be a waiter somewhere who serves less customers, just as there could be one who serves more, or serves in a more expensive, or cheaper, restaurant. Because we can't look at every waiters individual circumstances and earnings, typical examples and average earnings are used.
When I referred to your refusal to accept evidence, I was actually meaning the comments of others on this thread taken from their experience, to which you respond with a negative, without explaining why, or giving anything to support your view.
I can't understand why you are so stubbornly sticking to two contradictory points here.
Either everyone tips in the U.S.
OR
$11 per hour is includes tips.
Unless the U.S. if full of very quiet or very cheap (or both) restaurants, both simply cannot be correct for the average/typical waiter.
Put your hands up.0 -
I posted an example from your link. If you weren't convinced of its accuracy, it may have been better not to have offered it.
I do indeed understand how averages work. However, I think you are maybe struggling with the concept of 'representative'. Where case studies are used on these sites they are usually chosen because they are typical examples representative of the job in question.
Theoretically, yes, there could be a waiter somewhere who serves less customers, just as there could be one who serves more, or serves in a more expensive, or cheaper, restaurant. Because we can't look at every waiters individual circumstances and earnings, typical examples and average earnings are used.
When I referred to your refusal to accept evidence, I was actually meaning the comments of others on this thread taken from their experience, to which you respond with a negative, without explaining why, or giving anything to support your view.
I can't understand why you are so stubbornly sticking to two contradictory points here.
Either everyone tips in the U.S.
OR
$11 per hour is includes tips.
Unless the U.S. if full of very quiet or very cheap (or both) restaurants, both simply cannot be correct for the average/typical waiter.
Has anyone posted any examples of working as a waitress in the US? The only poster who has really posted anything about the US is the one that has admitted she was verbally abused when she didn't tip. You yourself have posted a link that says everyone tips. I dint know why you are now disputing this.
I don't understand how these points are contradictory.
Either everyone tips in the U.S.
OR
$11 per hour is includes tips.
How can you say it's impossible for a waitress to receive a tip from every customer they serve and only earn $11 an hour? There is no reason why both statement can't be true.
You whole reasoning is flawed.
On a side note I don't even know why you've brought this into the argument as it makes no sense.0 -
Ironically the one source you've quoted (the US bureau of labour statistics) says that the hourly wage of waitresses is made up of wage and tips
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/food-preparation-and-serving/waiters-and-waitresses.htm#tab-5
I look forward you your next attempt to try and contradict this0
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