Labour want to ignore the will of the people...

Conrad

CLAPTON wrote: »

what context is that?
the number of 'hate' crimes reported to police after brexit is something like 0.0001% of all crimes
the discrimination against poor african countries is a major daily occurance and has problably cause 100 of tousands of deaths and millions of migrants.

one fact is pro EU and one isn't

One particularly progressive argument for Brexit is that African farmers and traders will have better access to UK markets once we are outside the protectionist EU customs union.

All round we will have far free'r trade, win

BobQ

mrginge wrote: »

........................

So what you need to do is understand that for most people the underlying decision to leave or remain is a result of multiple factors on both sides which balance out to a final position. if you ask a specific question about each factor individually the you would get a number of very different pictures. As has been pointed out multiple times though, in the real world it is total impractical to do this by holding a referendum. Hence why leave/remain is such a crappy choice.

I agree each vote was due to multiple factors and as you say you might have a different vote on individual questions.

Personally I favour more control on immigration but that was less important to me than the economic arguments. Which sort of proves your point!

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

As I understood it, if the iscotland ref had been a YES, then they were going to take 18 months to leave: even though they had been planning the leave for 3o years and didn't even know what currency they were going to use:
we doing all right so far

The Pound.

Nothing has happened so far apart from Fox and Davies getting shirty over office space.

Shakethedisease

Conrad wrote: »

Well I don't think the German car manufacturers and many other European sectors are just gonna lay down and make a sacrifice, and once again be mindful we too can impose our own tariffs and barriers, deny access to our fishing grounds, say we won't patrol Eastern border states etc etc etc. You guys keep imagining the EU alone holds the power

They're Scottish Fishing grounds and may automatically default to Holyrood control if we leave the EU. It was one of the big arguments for voting Leave in Scotland actually. I'm sure you knew that ? That fishing and agriculture among other things could legally default to Scotland's parliament.

Focusing on recent demands for greater devolution to Scotland, the Scottish Vote Leave campaign argues that a Brexit would bring new powers over areas like fishing and farming to the Scottish Parliament. If a power is not specifically mentioned in the list of reserved powers in the Scotland Act, the campaign argues, then it would be transferred by default to Holyrood. Vote Leave, they say, and Scotland will become more powerful.

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/inside-politics/what-does-eu-referendum-mean-scotlands-place-world

Not sure many of us believed a word of it of course. Worth bearing in mind though. Fishing etc isn't cut and dried for Westminster to do as they choose if Holyrood decides to seek legal advice. I'm sure Sturgeon is certainly looking into it, and Vote Leave seemed very convinced that that fishing would go to Holyrood in the event of a Leave vote. Brown also made a speech today covering it.

Brown said Holyrood should be given powers currently controlled by the EU. Those could include control over all territorial fisheries, agriculture and social rights, as well as the European convention on human rights and EU academic programmes such as Erasmus. At the same time, a UK-wide constitutional convention was needed to investigate new structures, including a UK senate for the nations and English regions

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/29/gordon-brown-house-of-lords-elected-senate-brexit-uk-scottish-independence

Let's say tariffs go up all round, the EU will know we will be seeking new trade relationships with the world and so we could start importing on cheaper tariff free terms and the EU loose our custom for good

Ain't gonna happen. They need to show we've been smacked on the bottom lightly, that is all. To avoid contagion new arguments in project fear will be developed along the lines of France is not Britain, it is much more deeply integrated

All will turn out great for us

I'm sure you think so and voted with the best of intentions. But it's all turning into a bit of a mess isn't it. May is going to be battling on far too may fronts at the same time ( no wonder Cameron resigned ). Gibraltar, Spain, Northern Ireland, Scotland, The EU, trying to secure trade deals elsewhere with places that won't engage until an EU deal is clear, while trying to placate the Treasury/Hammond on London financial passporting, while trying to quell the millions of voters who took the EU referendum to mean no more immigration. All on a majority of 12.

It's an impossible task and I think it's time Brexiteers faced up to it a little. Because at the moment you're all just crossing your fingers and hoping that your own personal version of Brexit will be the one that happens x 17 million. Good luck with all that.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

But it's all turning into a bit of a mess isn't it.

Only in your mind.

If you were referring to the Labour party or Nicola's frantic tour of Europe I'd most certainly agree.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Only in your mind.

If you were referring to the Labour party or Nicola's frantic tour of Europe I'd most certainly agree.

Not really. I was talking about 'Plan, what plan ?' for any Brexit. It's a complete mess from start to finish. You're even debating here with other leavers of the pros and cons of a or b... because at the end of the day none of you, not one, have absolutely any idea whatsoever what you actually and collectively voted for.

Sturgeon at the very least, knows exactly what she wants.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The Pound.

Nothing has happened so far apart from Fox and Davies getting shirty over office space.

you mean that London will set iscotland bank rates for them and will control all scotland state borrowing and will control scotland's banks (if they have any) as lender of last resort.

Redknapps_Dog

Everyone brexit supporter has their own version of brexit, many if not most will be disappointed. Especially those that voted to leave based on mainly immigration.

Redknapps_Dog

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Not really. I was talking about 'Plan, what plan ?' for any Brexit. It's a complete mess from start to finish. You're even debating here with other leavers of the pros and cons of a or b... because at the end of the day none of you, not one, have absolutely any idea whatsoever what you actually and collectively voted for.

Sturgeon at the very least, knows exactly what she wants.

What will happen is brexiters will fall out among themselves, on all manner of subjects, pensions, healthcare and immigration to name but 2. And blame bremainers.

Masomnia

Redknapps_Dog wrote: »

Everyone brexit supporter has their own version of brexit, many if not most will be disappointed. Especially those that voted to leave based on mainly immigration.

I think that's true, but I also think that very few were really happy with the EU either. All we heard from the remain camp was that they wanted to stay and push for reforms; but that wasn't on the ballot paper.

In fact I think this is one of the min reasons for remains failure, there was no enthusiastic case for the EU as it is.