Labour want to ignore the will of the people...

kinger101

This is all becoming somewhat academic.

Theresa May, whose support for remain was tepid at best, has made it clear she'll invoke article 50 with no further parliamentary vote. It's also become clear that brexit means controlled immigration, which means we cannot be part of the EU's free market.

The opposition party have a leader whom despite claims to the contrary is in favour of leaving the EU for the usual left-wing protectionist reasons. His vision of the state is not compatible with the EU's laws. Unless anyone expects the Lib Dems and SNP to become the new government anytime soon, we're out.

I'm just thankful brexit will be negotiated by party that wants to promote global trade rather than one that would likely restrain it to protect nationalized industries.

CLAPTON

kinger101 wrote: »

This is all becoming somewhat academic.

Theresa May, whose support for remain was tepid at best, has made it clear she'll invoke article 50 with no further parliamentary vote. It's also become clear that brexit means controlled immigration, which means we cannot be part of the EU's free market.

The opposition party have a leader whom despite claims to the contrary is in favour of leaving the EU for the usual left-wing protectionist reasons. His vision of the state is not compatible with the EU's laws. Unless anyone expects the Lib Dems and SNP to become the new government anytime soon, we're out.

I'm just thankful brexit will be negotiated by party that wants to promote global trade rather than one that would likely restrain it to protect nationalized industries.

there is no reason to believe that Corbyn's view on the EU, will affect how the labour MPs will vote

BobQ

Conrad wrote: »

Any attempt to subvert the meaning of 'leave the EU' would result in a massive lurch to the right. Bring it on baby

Clearly there are many ways of leaving the EU.

What is your definition of "leave the EU"?
What represents the minimum change that meets that definition?

Shakethedisease

kinger101 wrote: »

This is all becoming somewhat academic.

Theresa May, whose support for remain was tepid at best, has made it clear she'll invoke article 50 with no further parliamentary vote. It's also become clear that brexit means controlled immigration, which means we cannot be part of the EU's free market.

The opposition party have a leader whom despite claims to the contrary is in favour of leaving the EU for the usual left-wing protectionist reasons. His vision of the state is not compatible with the EU's laws. Unless anyone expects the Lib Dems and SNP to become the new government anytime soon, we're out.

I'm just thankful brexit will be negotiated by party that wants to promote global trade rather than one that would likely restrain it to protect nationalized industries.

But there's reports all over the newspapers today of a Cabinet split within the Tories over what Brexit means. No point pretending that the Tories are completely in agreement either.

A Whitehall turf war has reportedly broken out over Britain's blueprint for Brexit, with Prime Minister Theresa May's cabinet split over what a withdrawal from the European Union should mean.
The Treasury's efforts to torpedo any economic withdrawal have caused a row with David Davis and Liam Fox, according to The Sunday Times.

Senior Tory MPs claimed the chancellor, Philip Hammond, has locked horns with fellow ministers by resisting proposals that the UK should pull out of the EU single market.

Davis and Fox, the two ministers appointed to lead Brexit, will appear with Hammond as Theresa May hosts a cabinet meeting at Chequers on Wednesday, 31 August.
May has ordered all cabinet ministers to outline how best to leave the EU to ensure Brexit is a success for the country.
Hammond has reportedly insisted in private that "everything is on the table", with nervous treasury officials keen to ensure top priority is given to ensure the financial services industry retain its access to the single market.
Other ministers, like Davis and Fox, believe access to the single market will mean the government will be unable to regain border controls and end the free movement of people – something echoed by the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, and other EU leaders as they met privately last week.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/philip-hammond-brexit-ministers-warring-over-leaving-eu-single-market-1578431

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

But there's reports all over the newspapers today of a Cabinet split within the Tories over what Brexit means. No point pretending that the Tories are completely in agreement either.

Be odd if people didn't have different opinions. Any party that has an enforced whip isn't democratic. As on any matter. The Cabinet will vote. Majority rules.

kinger101

CLAPTON wrote: »

there is no reason to believe that Corbyn's view on the EU, will affect how the labour MPs will vote

Good point, but if it came to a vote, I think most of the labour MPs will most likely follow the vote within their constituency.

p1212

BobQ wrote: »

Clearly there are many ways of leaving the EU.

What is your definition of "leave the EU"?
What represents the minimum change that meets that definition?

The vote was very well defined, they said we vote out, they trigger article 50 the very next day. At this point that's all we need to know until triggering article 50 is done.

"making plans", "lets define it" etc... are remainer terms which actually mean gaining time and cancelling brexit, we all know this.

We don't need plans, ofc we wan't free trade and immigration restrictions. The "plan" is to achieve as much as we can from these AFTER we've triggered article 50 and started negotiations. What other plans and definitions you need?

mwpt

p1212 wrote: »

We don't need plans, ofc we wan't free trade and immigration restrictions.

Do we? As far as I can tell, 48% of people voted for no immigration restrictions and of the 52% who voted for brexit, I'm pretty sure more than 2% don't want immigration restrictions.

So, as far as democracy and majority rule goes, we should probably pursue a brexit model which entails entry in the single market and includes freedom of movement.

mayonnaise

kinger101 wrote: »

Theresa May, whose support for remain was tepid at best, has made it clear she'll invoke article 50 with no further parliamentary vote. It's also become clear that brexit means controlled immigration, which means we cannot be part of the EU's free market.

How has this become clear?

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

Do we? As far as I can tell, 48% of people voted for no immigration restrictions and of the 52% who voted for brexit, I'm pretty sure more than 2% don't want immigration restrictions.

So, as far as democracy and majority rule goes, we should probably pursue a brexit model which entails entry in the single market and includes freedom of movement.

no, it was clear that many 'remainers' were appalled by the thought that Turkish people might have no immigration restrictions : they even 'accused' brexiters' of scare mongering by the very suggestion.

It is clear that many 'remainers' would like immigration restriction applied even to the white, crhristian european countries but felt that overall taking everything into consideration, that they would vote remain.