Labour want to ignore the will of the people...

prowla

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Can't be bothered reading the whole thread but I'm going to guess the Brexiteers are arguing a democratic choice on June 23rd 2016 was good but the same democratic choice on any future date is bad.

Because more democracy is clearly a bad thing....

The question has already been asked and answered; it doesn't need to be re-run.

prowla

BobQ wrote: »

A referendum with a choice of two options for (a).

Should the UK Government leave the EU by seeking to negotiate:

EITHER
A close relationship with the EU and its single market
OR
A distant relationship with the EU involving a trade agreement with it

The first prerequisite for (b) is to know what is the broad objective of the negotiation. The UK negotiators could then explore the negotiating space knowing what the people wanted. If it cannot be achieved we will have to live with what we can achieve, but the second option shuld be easily achieved whereas the first would need EU27 cooperation.

Either way why waste time when we do not know what we are trying to achieve?

Those two options are vague and woolly; we should want a close relationship with the EU and its single market, but not with free movement. We should also be flexible on the amount the EU has to pay us for access to our market.

prowla

mwpt wrote: »

But how many people are concerned about it? We don't know. All we know is that a bunch of people voted to leave the EU for various reasons. I accept that is what happened, and we will now leave the EU, but since I didn't become a non-person since being on the wrong side of that vote, my voice about what brexit should look like also counts. For some reason you guys don't seem so keen on that idea.

Who are "you guys"?

Moby

prowla wrote: »

Who are "you guys"?

Idiot brexiteers probably.

Conrad

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Can't be bothered reading the whole thread but I'm going to guess the Brexiteers are arguing a democratic choice on June 23rd 2016 was good but the same democratic choice on any future date is bad.

Because more democracy is clearly a bad thing....

I don't recall this argument after the Scots referendum

mayonnaise

Conrad wrote: »

May, Fox, Boris all very quiet, in the spirit of the May ethos of more work, less grandstanding, I like the tension and know in the background they are all toiling away to assemble the right deal.

Definitely toiling away, them three.

Theresa May's three Eurosceptic Cabinet ministers held a private meeting yesterday to “clear the air” after weeks of significant tensions.

Mrs May was "unimpressed" with Dr Fox's behaviour and sources said she wants her ministers to "stop wasting time" and instead focus on delivering Brexit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/25/boris-johnson-liam-fox-and-david-davis-meet-to-clear-the-air-aft/

Still, I'm sure there will be a plan anytime soon now. Maybe.

mayonnaise

Conrad wrote: »

I don't recall this argument after the Scots referendum

Oh for crying out loud... for the umpteenth time: Nobody is calling for another in/out vote.

Conrad

mayonnaise wrote: »

Oh for crying out loud... for the umpteenth time: Nobody is calling for another in/out vote.

Watch last nights Labour leadership debate on I-player, Smith said several times he does not want us to leave and will argue strongly to this end.

In any event, another vote on terms is unhelpful on several fronts and the loosing side would point to the prescient set and argue the vote needs yet another re-run. You think the EU want to go to the effort of comming up with a plan only for the British to reject it? I think not.

John Rentoul voted remain, but now says like 79% of us, do not want any kind of further referendum on this ( latest poll found only 21% want another ref)

Following the vote lots of Remainers called into LBC wanting a re-vote but with every passing day less and less make this case and more and more say we've made our decision and need to get on with it.

Moby

Conrad wrote: »

Watch last nights Labour leadership debate on I-player, Smith said several times he does not want us to leave and will argue strongly to this end.

In any event, another vote on terms is unhelpful on several fronts and the loosing side would point to the prescient set and argue the vote needs yet another re-run. You think the EU want to go to the effort of comming up with a plan only for the British to reject it? I think not.

John Rentoul voted remain, but now says like 79% of us, do not want any kind of further referendum on this ( latest poll found only 21% want another ref)

Following the vote lots of Remainers called into LBC wanting a re-vote but with every passing day less and less make this case and more and more say we've made our decision and need to get on with it.

The terms of the brexit is all to play for. I will support a politician who wants to stay as close to being in the EU as possible with regards to the terms agreed. So technically we may have brexitted but with as few changes as possible. That's what I want and will campaign for. The vote was 51 - 49....so close which indicates to me its all to play for. Add in people were lied to........... they thought they were voting to reduce immigration .....yes all to play for. Did you really think remainers would just accept the result and go away and leave things to Boris, Davis and Fox.......'fraid not!

mwpt

Thrugelmir wrote: »

In that case we'd never have a stable Government. As those that voted for the opposition would be on the wrong side of the vote. Majority politics has worked reasonably well in the UK for some considerable time. A referendum was a non political choice. Which was the correct method. An elected Government polling 35% is not a mandate to dictate to the other 65%. That's totally skewed. Politicians are public servants not people following their own agendas. Farage is resonating in the US as he's upfront and non establishment. People are tired of the self elected elite.

*sigh*

I don't know how many more times or different ways I can state the same thing. I am not saying we aren't going to leave the EU or that I wish to revert the result of the referendum. I never advocated a second referendum when other people were discussing it.

What I am saying, is that we do not know what brexit should look like. And so, whatever deal the current government starts to pursue may or may not be what most people actually want.

I will be happy if the current government decides that brexit looks like obtaining access to the single market and signing up to free movement. I don't particularly care if they have to agree to conforming to EU legislation or not, or monetary contributions or not. Both could be enforced and I wouldn't mind.

And is that what brexit looks like to others? If this is the deal the government pursues, will you (the people contributing to this thread) be relaxed about that and move on with your lives? Or does that not represent what brexit looks like to you? How will you get across your view on what brexit looks like?