Brexit means Brexit

Masomnia

mwpt wrote: »

Err, why do we have to do this? I haven't yet been asked to vote on a government who want to control or restrict immigration.

I don't think there is any mandate to restrict immigration at this point, merely to exit the European Union.

Cameron's been harping on for years about bringing own immigration - whether he's followed through with it or not is another matter.

kinger101

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Project Fear still running I see.

But even if you are right, such a craven attitude to blackmail Is even more despicable. And dressing it up as pragmatism as no doubt would be your next gambit won't disguise that.

However, it's already apparent that the EU politicians whose jobs are dependent upon workers whose products are bought in this country, are reining in and indeed making moves to get rid of the fascist Eurocrats who act as you imply and to whose demands you pathetically wish to submit.

Attitudes like yours and the Eurocrats to whom you wish to bow, are one of the major reasons people voted to leave.

Yes, it's obviously my fault we voted leave.

It's not blackmail. It's not project fear. It's just the reality of what membership of the EU club requires for European countries. Free movement of goods, services and people. If there was some wonderful alternative, it would have been on the table before the the vote. The EU were emphatic that there wasn't.

I voted remain, but I don't think it's a disaster that we're leaving. The worst thing will be the probable loss of the banking sector. FWIW, I wouldn't even bother with any EU exit negotiations. Trying to get 27 countries to agree on anything will take too much energy. The Government should focus on what happens with the rest of the world.

kinger101

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

Why would you want to be part of a club which is composed of such irrational and spiteful members?

Their reasons are entirely rational. The whole premise of the EU is the free movement of goods, people and services (within what is essentially a protectionist block).

Eric_the_half_a_bee

kinger101 wrote: »

Their reasons are entirely rational. The whole premise of the EU is the free movement of goods, people and services (within what is essentially a protectionist block).

Making free trade (free movement of goods and services) dependent on the free movement of people is not rational. It may have seemed so in the 1950s when the EU was born, but the rest of the world realised in the 1990s that is not the case. 20 years later, the EU has still not twigged.

Thrugelmir

kinger101 wrote: »

The whole premise of the EU is the free movement of goods, people and services (within what is essentially a protectionist block).

Bottom line is peace. After several centuries of wars.

BobQ

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Again, its Project Fear. An equating with bank lending is a false analogy. This is a meeting of equals. A better bank analogy would be more along the lines of "if you owe a bank a million pounds, you're in trouble. If you owe a bank a billion pounds, the bank is in trouble". And in this case, the EU "owes" us billions though its exports to us.

What I expect is that economic rationality will take hold rather them them being driven by spite, the shock and pique is alreday trending into calmer statements. From no negotiation until Rule 50, to lots of things being floated in the press about what might be acceptable to them,and thats just after a few weeks. They haven't yet had the full impact of exchange rates starting to hit their exports. Adding tariffs on top of that would be an economic disaster for them.

So lets wait and see. Any tariffs that the EU will impose on the UK will spectacularly backfire on their politicians. They arent that irrational, they like their jobs.

The unelected Eurocrats may be, but they are heading for a fall, they've already been slapped down by Merkel, Juncker is on borrowed time, the EU needs us economically as much as we need them (and arguably less).

Arguments like yours make me wish i had voted for Brexit, I have no wish to be ruled by the scum you are quite happy to hold us to ransom for a few pounds.

If I accept your views do you think that the EU will soon be asking us what they could do to make us want to stay in the EU?

BobQ

AnotherJoe wrote: »

But we were just told by a Remainer that CETA would be a good model to follow but we cant have it merely because of their spite, "to teach us a lesson" in effect. !

(c) Canada is close to negotiating CETA which offers tariff-free imports. ....

But CETA won't be an option for the UK. A point needs to made about the consequences of tearing up your club membership. Originally posted by kinger101

If thats not spite what is?

Outside of the EU CETA will not be an option unless the EU27 and Canada agree we can continue to use it. Nothing to stop us agreeing a deal with Canada called CUTA using much the same text.

kinger101

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Bottom line is peace. After several centuries of wars.

That's not the function of the EU any more. And we don't know we'd have been blowing each other up if the EU didn't exist. Japan and China have been at peace since WWII ended.

kinger101

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

Making free trade (free movement of goods and services) dependent on the free movement of people is not rational. It may have seemed so in the 1950s when the EU was born, but the rest of the world realised in the 1990s that is not the case. 20 years later, the EU has still not twigged.

I didn't say the EU was rational per se. Just their actions are rational within the context of the EU's current purpose. If you have rules and benefits of membership, you don't suddenly start handing out benefits to non-members and expect every to stay in the club.

mwpt

kinger101 wrote: »

I didn't say the EU was rational per se. Just their actions are rational within the context of the EU's current purpose. If you have rules and benefits of membership, you don't suddenly start handing out benefits to non-members and expect every to stay in the club.

I'd like to see this argument addressed. It seems certain brexit voters hold the UK in such high regard that the EU will bend over backward, possibly sowing the seeds of its own destruction by offering the UK a better deal outside the EU than inside. Seems very unlikely to me.

If I were a brexit person, I'd be focusing on how we can make the most of the new found "control" to forge trade agreements with other nations and forget trying to talk down the EU, free movement, etc, all the time.