PCP Car - can I give it back?

bigjl

motorguy wrote: »

Well i've never heard of anyone getting pulled over and their car jacked up, their exhaust stripped off, the DPF cut open and them subsequently taken to court.

Of course if its as much a possibility as you are saying it is, you'll have no problem linking to hundreds of such cases through the courts?

I note from the DVSA website their goal is to "improve road safety by setting standards for driving and motorcycling, and making sure that drivers, vehicle operators and MOT garages follow roadworthiness standards."

Not sure they'd be terribly interested in DPF gutting. Tyres, brakes, roadworthiness - yes. DPF gutting, not so much.

And Insurance loss adjuster will be very happy to find a gutted DPF.

If I was a loss adjuster it would be the first thing I would check.

It's very easy to check if a DPF has been gutted, just knock it.

tedted

you are not a mot tester are you bigil oterwise you would know you cannot do anythihg just ecause you dont like it.

mcjordi

bigjl wrote: »

Passing an MOT because the Tester didn't check properly doesn't mean it's legal.

/QUOTE]

I didnt say it that. but fair enough i conceed
i doubt the finance company would find out anyway as most VT's end up at auction anway

motorguy

bigjl wrote: »

Passing an MOT because the Tester didn't check properly doesn't mean it's legal.

The MOT Tester IS checking it properly - within the constraints he is obliged to follow - and thats all he (and you) need to worry about.

More than happy for you to demonstrate that MOT testers have the remit to cut apart a DPF box, although like last time you were pressed on this you couldnt.

bigjl wrote: »

Removing a DPF means that car no longer meets Construction & Use regulations

Yes. But this cant be detected without quite literally cutting the car apart - and the DVSA have no remit (or no inclination as its not a road safety issue) to do that

Again, more than happy for you to demonstrate instances where DVSA or any government body has cut a car apart a car to examine the contents of a DPF box and successfully got a conviction. Again, like last time, i'm sure you cant

bigjl wrote: »

Also as the car is on a PCP the owner of the car, the finance company, will likely sue if they discover it.

Nope. They have no remit to come and examine the car during the term of the agreement. The bulk of cars on PCP are traded in at the end of term to release equity and only a small number returned to the finance company. As the finance company have no place to store cars, they go straight to auction and "sold as seen".

And again, please provide evidence of finance companies suing people for removing a DPF.

bigjl wrote: »

And you have to declare such a modification when selling the car.

To who? A private seller. Nope. You dont legally have to.

To a trader. Nope. Hes the expert, he needs to examine the car to his satisfaction.

At auction? Nope. Sold as seen.

bigjl wrote: »

And declare it to your Insurer.

Basically you will have to tell your Insurer that your car is no longer compliant to C&U

And how would they EVER know?

motorguy

bigjl wrote: »

And Insurance loss adjuster will be very happy to find a gutted DPF.

If I was a loss adjuster it would be the first thing I would check.

It's very easy to check if a DPF has been gutted, just knock it.

They dont check it. They come out and value the car and insure visually its as expected.

An insurance valuer wont come out with an angle grinder and get the car put on its side and start cutting it up.

To suggest its a possibility is frankly ridiculous.

motorguy

mcjordi wrote: »

I didnt say it that. but fair enough i conceed

The MOT tester is testing the DPF within their remit, therefore they are examining the DPF correctly.

motorguy

tedted wrote: »

you are not a mot tester are you bigil oterwise you would know you cannot do anythihg just ecause you dont like it.

And therein lies Bigjls problem - as you say just because he doesnt like something he makes up all these rules and scenarios to justify it, when in fact its undetectable unless you cut the car apart.

mcjordi

motorguy wrote: »

The MOT tester is testing the DPF within their remit, therefore they are examining the DPF correctly.

oh i know.. i was on about the C+U thing. It was an MOT tester that told me leave the shell there and it wont fail for a missing CAT/DPF

BeenThroughItAll

motorguy wrote: »

The MOT Tester IS checking it properly - within the constraints he is obliged to follow - and thats all he (and you) need to worry about.

More than happy for you to demonstrate that MOT testers have the remit to cut apart a DPF box, although like last time you were pressed on this you couldnt.



Yes. But this cant be detected without quite literally cutting the car apart - and the DVSA have no remit (or no inclination as its not a road safety issue) to do that

Again, more than happy for you to demonstrate instances where DVSA or any government body has cut a car apart a car to examine the contents of a DPF box and successfully got a conviction. Again, like last time, i'm sure you cant



Nope. They have no remit to come and examine the car during the term of the agreement. The bulk of cars on PCP are traded in at the end of term to release equity and only a small number returned to the finance company. As the finance company have no place to store cars, they go straight to auction and "sold as seen".

And again, please provide evidence of finance companies suing people for removing a DPF.



To who? A private seller. Nope. You dont legally have to.

To a trader. Nope. Hes the expert, he needs to examine the car to his satisfaction.

At auction? Nope. Sold as seen.



And how would they EVER know?

Just for the purposes of accuracy and balance, I have to point out that there are several non-destructive ways of checking; examples being an emissions test for particulates, or checking OBD2 or CAN data streams for differential pressure values from the DPF sensors. Neither require any cutting, and DVSA do have the equipment to carry out the tests.

Mercdriver

motorguy wrote: »

Absolutely. Totally illegal.

However i can totally sympathise with those who have been let down by car manufacturers, car dealers and the government and sold something that isnt fit for purpose. If i was facing a £1,000 bill every year for a new DPF because the car i've been sold cant hack being driven on short journeys i'd have no qualms about gutting the DPF.

So does that mean that when someone comes on here saying they have a diesel and do 5k miles a year and their DPF keeps filling up, you won't criticise them for their choice? :j

It might not fail MOT on the DPF, not yet until the gutting of them becomes so common - and talk about doing it on the web is one way of identifying it as a common thing to do that they add physical checks. Increased pollution and particles from exhaust could mean a failure on emmissions however and if you have bought a car unknowingly that had its DPF gutted and subsequently failed its MOT and then spend money investigating the cause. Do you still think this is fair? You won't be punishing car manufacturers, dealers or finance houses. Just real people.