I want to be made redundant!!!

stebiz

ckerrd wrote: »

An average of 7 weeks time off sick does seem terribly high, although a couple of long term sick employees could well bump up the average.

It does strike me that there is a great deal of mismanagement going on and as per my previous post I would expect a decent Manager or HR department to be across this to see what was the root cause.

It may be of course that the company are happy to let this happen so they can cite the sickness records as part of the reason for outsourcing.
Not necessarily a nice way to go about things but it happens.

As I said before - walk away.

I have also heard, as squashy indicated, of jobs being altered just enough to be a change for the individual but not enough to be considered redundant. Another sneaky thing to do but it does happen.

Business tend on the whole to be better at manipulating the system than an individual, but someone one person gets lucky and scores a few points and gets some reward, whether it be financial or raising of self esteem, or the respect of their colleagues. But those times are few and far between.

Time to move on.

I agree with you. It is time to move on and I will very shortly. My sick pay runs out in a couple of months. It has also left a very sour taste from a company I once cared about so so much. I would defend them to the hilt. Very sad.

Stebiz

stebiz

gt-cri wrote: »

"It may be of course that the company are happy to let this happen so they can cite the sickness records as part of the reason for outsourcing.
Not necessarily a nice way to go about things but it happens.

As I said before - walk away.

I have also heard, as squashy indicated, of jobs being altered just enough to be a change for the individual but not enough to be considered redundant. Another sneaky thing to do but it does happen.

Business tend on the whole to be better at manipulating the system than an individual, but someone one person gets lucky and scores a few points and gets some reward, whether it be financial or raising of self esteem, or the respect of their colleagues. But those times are few and far between."

I think that the comments above catch the essence of this discussion; that some companies are good at maximising profits/share-holder returns, at the expense of employee moral. One begets the other- poor companies employ bad workers. Consistently, workers are asked what their number-one change to their employment would be? The most popular answer is always "More say in what I do." By the sound of it, the company in question was not always like this but has become a poor employer through the changes of owners/ high staff turnover etc.

In the past, the trade-union could have helped with this, or possibly made it worse. Nowadays, the employers can "out-source" (an oxymoron if ever I heard one!) services to save money. It can also be used to undermine the ever-increasing employee-friendly employment regulations coming from (mostly) the EU.

As I said, one begets the other.

However, all money-savers are by default trying to "work" the system"! We are using a pooled knowledge to give ourselves more clout, when dealing with "big-business". We endeavour to play big-business at their own game!

To Stebiz, you have my sympathy for working for a poor employer. You also have my respect for being brave enough to post a request for what is a contentious issue. I would possibly advise contacting ACAS or at least inform them of your situation-they have numerous (free) (oops, should I mention that? Someone may try to play the system by using tax-payer's money to get a free book:p !!) publications which may offer some hope.

To the opponents of Stebiz's stance, I say what is wrong with "playing" the system- didn't it lead us all to this web-site and forum?

Thanks for your comments. I have been in touch with Acas and although the person I spoke to frowned upon the way this employer was working - explained that it was all quite legal.

The company is gradually letting out the floors in the Office Block and we will all shortly be on one floor. After that who knows!! I'm sorry for those who disagree with me (I know you are not one of them) but business is one BIG GAME to some execs. How much money can we make? That is all they are interested in. I know we will never beat this company. However we can get some of our own back. For those companies who are thinking of acting in this way please think again. Have a heart. Also I know that many colleagues just don't care any more and although are doing their job, are not interested in keeping customers. In the long run I'm sure this will cost them a lot more in winning back these customers.

Stebiz

ceridwen

Ultimately - the "name of the game" at present amongst many British employers is to get their "labour" as cheaply as they possibly can - they are trying to be "competitive" on a world stage. A British (or, for that matter, many other European workers) cannot begin to compete with a worker in India or China or such - and its a waste of time us employees even trying to do so - do we seriously want umpteen-hour workweeks and NMW-level wages (unless NMW got abolished - in which case - halve that) in order to "compete". It is not physically possible - and keep a normal "Western" lifestyle.

Seems that both as individuals - and as countries - the only logical direction to move in is to be as "self-sufficient" as we possibly can be - so as to lessen our exposure to "market forces". I personally think each individual person needs to work on reducing their dependence on employers - because so many of them are acting in this immoral way these days. I also think each individual country needs to work on being as "independent" as possible - so it doesnt matter to us what other countries charge for their fuel/food/etc or the level of pay their workers get. Okay - put very simplistically - but I cant see any other way we can go at present.

Put basically - working for pretty nearly any employer these days (unless one is in an executive-type position) seems to consist of payrises that are less than inflation (or non-existent)/pressure on sick people to keep coming into work/pension theft/pressure on people to resign (as the firm is trying not to pay out redundancy etc money)... the list goes on - but that doesnt make it right - the word "morals" was still in the dictionary the last time I looked.

SwanSue

Just to add my own perspective, having recently worked for an organization that made some redundant due to downsizing (not me though) - and other experiences.... your company hasn't shown any particular inclination to be fair so far, you're just adding to your frustration hoping they will somehow change that. Do yourself a great favor and accept the fact that it's not going to happen. If you have to go chop up a heap of firewood for someone to get that out of your system then that's ok too. Sounds like you have enough other good opportunities going that you'd be better off in the long run to put your energies into your own projects (that's what I did). At the age of 52 I've "been there done that" and paid my dues so didn't need to put up with games like that anymore. Companies that operate in this way will ultimately get theirs in the long run. And you won't have to lift a finger. My previous situation was harming my health too and that was too precious to risk. My boss would have been the one to get the redundancy buyout and I would have been left holding the bag to clean up. So I didn't wait for my emotions to fester - I left. I could do with more cash flow right now but know in my heart that for me it was the right decision. My husband and I have our own projects so now my efforts are going full time to them and soon I'll be earning more than the job paid and am already MUCH happier. Hope you can benefit from something here.

sdooley

What you need is a trade union with the guts and moral authority to go in and do the deal managment's probably been wanting to do for years.

eowyn_2

Stebiz,

As someone who's suffered both work stress and multiple redundancies, I would recommend the following.

Firstly deal with how you handle stress. I am not a fan of 'therapy' at all but cognitive behaviour therapy was useful for me.
Secondly don't put yourself forward for voluntary redundancy as it weakens your position and from what you say they have no intention of paying people off.
Thirdly resign once you return to work as you will not be happy there and your health is more important.
Finally, if you wish to fight them, look into taking them to an employment tribunal on the grounds of constructive dismissal (start with Citizens Advice Bureau). Use your notice period to pull together evidence.

Remember this last will be hassle and is not guaranteed to succeed. Employers are not known for fairness but weigh up whether you want to take them on or if it would be better to just walk away.

I wish you well.

stebiz

eowyn wrote: »

Stebiz,

As someone who's suffered both work stress and multiple redundancies, I would recommend the following.

Firstly deal with how you handle stress. I am not a fan of 'therapy' at all but cognitive behaviour therapy was useful for me.
Secondly don't put yourself forward for voluntary redundancy as it weakens your position and from what you say they have no intention of paying people off.
Thirdly resign once you return to work as you will not be happy there and your health is more important.
Finally, if you wish to fight them, look into taking them to an employment tribunal on the grounds of constructive dismissal (start with Citizens Advice Bureau). Use your notice period to pull together evidence.

Remember this last will be hassle and is not guaranteed to succeed. Employers are not known for fairness but weigh up whether you want to take them on or if it would be better to just walk away.

I wish you well.

Just an update. I'm still off on stress. It has now been 3 months and I'm on full pay. I haven't heard anything from them in 2 months (I just carry on sending my sick notes in). I have written to them asking if we can mutually cancel my employment contract, with some compensation. If not what do they propose to do when my 'full pay' runs out as I believe they caused the stress in the first place - to date no reply.

Stebiz

ckerrd

I fear you may have given them the upper hand now.

Have you in the past got on record the fact that you think your work caused you to be stressed? If not I think you are onto a loser. Effectively you have informed them that you don't want to work there any more and could they please give you some money to go away.

I know that is very simplistic, but from the management's point of view they may well say, this person has been off sick for a while, obviously doesn't want to work here, so lets get rid of them. On grounds of ill-health or consensual termination. In which case they may throw you a few crumbs, compensation wise, but they may not.

I do go back to what I said earlier about mismanagement and I find it poor form that no-one has been in touch and that they are not making moves to do something about your situation

stebiz

ckerrd wrote: »

I fear you may have given them the upper hand now.

Have you in the past got on record the fact that you think your work caused you to be stressed? If not I think you are onto a loser. Effectively you have informed them that you don't want to work there any more and could they please give you some money to go away.

I know that is very simplistic, but from the management's point of view they may well say, this person has been off sick for a while, obviously doesn't want to work here, so lets get rid of them. On grounds of ill-health or consensual termination. In which case they may throw you a few crumbs, compensation wise, but they may not.

I do go back to what I said earlier about mismanagement and I find it poor form that no-one has been in touch and that they are not making moves to do something about your situation

Thanks for your reply. Yes it has been noted that it was 'work related stress' with issues brought on by the company and I understand fully what you are trying to say and agree to an extent. However I believe I am covered by the disability discriminations act as I was in the same job last time I went off with stress, and no help has been given to me by the company in finding another position,in fact exactly the opposite - they have actually been quite obstructive.

I also put in my letter my intention to return to work at a later date, when the doctor allows, but they may wish to consider a mutual agreement. Do you think I have done wrong?? I mean somebody needs to break the ice somewhere about mutual terminations.

Stebiz

ceridwen

Am also not sure that was the worlds wisest idea! hoping I'm wrong on that one.....

As someone who has been/ indeed still is on the receiving end of management tactics to get shot of staff..... they wait and they wait and they wait...... they figure they are "bigger" than you and you'll give them a chance to get shot of you and say it was your fault sooner or later. It aint an easy game ...I know from personal experience. You say "someone has to break the ice" - can quite see your point.... but I tend to feel its best to let them know your intentions "through the grapevine"... nothing in writing, nothing they can use as proof against you and - if all else fails - then start talking about "similar" situations and what you think the "friend" you know would do in those circumstances in an approving sort of way!

They will know whats what - but cant get you for it.