An Evening With... Jeremy Corbyn

ruggedtoast

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

Of course it isn't; that's why I don't do it.

Elections in this country are won on the middle ground between the extreme right wingers and communists. It's ridiculous that there is no party occupying and exploiting this fertile territory.

Umm...

Conrad

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Umm...

From the Lib Dems homepage > a story that would chime with every working class kid in the land, lol.......






'Hannah's Erasmus Story'


'Erasmus is a life changing experience, unfortunately Erasmus is now in danger because of Brexit


We all went to get tostadas in a little cafe'

westernpromise

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Dismissing everyone who isn't a Tory voter as a communist is no better.

Who does that? Give an example.

westernpromise

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

Of course it isn't; that's why I don't do it.

Elections in this country are won on the middle ground between the extreme right wingers and communists. It's ridiculous that there is no party occupying and exploiting this fertile territory.

Yes there is. It's called the Tory Party.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Interesting to see two different interpretations of voting options for the "middle ground".

The LibDems are too rampantly europhilic for many; and for others the Tories are synonymous with greed and self-interest.

There are many more shades of grey in real life; you get people on the left against abortion, those who favour both grammar schools and the renationalisation of railways, woolly liberals who think we'd be mad to scrap Trident etc. There are much more nuances and subtleties to voters than are depicted in the usual caricatures of Left/Right.

Moby

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

Interesting to see two different interpretations of voting options for the "middle ground".

The LibDems are too rampantly europhilic for many; and for others the Tories are synonymous with greed and self-interest.

There are many more shades of grey in real life; you get people on the left against abortion, those who favour both grammar schools and the renationalisation of railways, woolly liberals who think we'd be mad to scrap Trident etc. There are much more nuances and subtleties to voters than are depicted in the usual caricatures of Left/Right.

Refreshing post avoiding tit for tat....I think the problem is our voting system does not adequately reflect the nuances you describe. On reflection the coalition now seems a distant, happy memory and now we're left with the brexiteer loons who clearly have no plan!

westernpromise

I thought we were rather well governed under the Coalition.

Generally speaking the Left is intolerant of a plurality of opinion. It doesn't only hate Conservative views, it hates different left wing views as well - as witness the bile hurled at Blair.

The Khorbynite left thinks there should be one opinion on everything and that the state should tell you what that is.

ruggedtoast

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The policies. That was his remark. I responded, he accused me of being a boomer. Well, see for yourself.

If you decide to adopt the opinions, mannerisms and gait, of a right wing pensioner, then do not be surprised if people identify you as such.

Maybe you can have Clapton round for coffee and a malted milk.

Good day.

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

If you decide to adopt the opinions, mannerisms and gait, of a right wing pensioner, then do not be surprised if people identify you as such.

Maybe you can have Clapton round for coffee and a malted milk.

Good day.

I'm wrong, because you don't agree with me then?

I'm wrong because reality tells you a story you don't want to hear?

If you're lazy, you get nothing, that's not the fault of the state.

If you're not lazy and you work hard, but you lack ambition to raise yourself up from where you are, you'll be stuck where you are. That's not the fault of the state either.

If you're not lazy, and you have ambition, the general story is that you'll achieve.

Personal choices, personal responsibility, personal gain.

Who exactly are these people for whom social mobility hasn't worked? Have you identified why it hasn't worked for these people? Surely you must have the answers to both of these questions if you're so sure the answer is state intervention.

ruggedtoast

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I'm wrong, because you don't agree with me then?

I'm wrong because reality tells you a story you don't want to hear?

If you're lazy, you get nothing, that's not the fault of the state.

If you're not lazy and you work hard, but you lack ambition to raise yourself up from where you are, you'll be stuck where you are. That's not the fault of the state either.

If you're not lazy, and you have ambition, the general story is that you'll achieve.

Personal choices, personal responsibility, personal gain.

Who exactly are these people for whom social mobility hasn't worked? Have you identified why it hasn't worked for these people? Surely you must have the answers to both of these questions if you're so sure the answer is state intervention.

No, the story is that you achieved. Given your age, mostly under a Labour government that you detest, crippling you with comprehensive education that apparently educated you, and the terrible certainty of a welfare safety net that would catch you if you took a risk that failed to pay off.

Now the system that you succeeded under is under threat, and for some reason you are pleased. Which makes no sense at all considering the background you say you have, as the march toward neoliberalism is designed to stop people like you succeeding.

But that is what propaganda does. It makes people want that which is diametrically opposed to their interests.