An Evening With... Jeremy Corbyn

setmefree2

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I see no problem in running a parallel system which recognises academic achievement over and above the norm and produces the next generation of bright superstars.

Plenty of kids go to Oxbridge from state schools. (In fact the majority these days are from state schools) Why do they suddenly need to be housed in a separate school? Why are they so delicate?

The idea of sticking everyone in together just for the sake of it

It's not for the sake of it. It's because it's good for social cohesion for kids to mix with a wide range of folk.

sounds as pragmatic and productive as telling every child they're a winner on sports day.

You clearly have never been near a school in years. They are highly competitive places. From the moment your kid goes to the school the table the sit on denotes their ability. In High School kids are set in nearly everything. Mixed ability teaching is long gone.

ukcarper

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I see no problem in running a parallel system which recognises academic achievement over and above the norm and produces the next generation of bright superstars.

The idea of sticking everyone in together just for the sake of it sounds as pragmatic and productive as telling every child they're a winner on sports day.

There is no reason that can't be achieved in a correctly streamed comp. I saw a couple graphs comparing exam results by class in Kent and nationally and in Kent it showed very little improvement in higher earners and a lower achievement low earners. I've tried to find graphs but I can't but I don't believe there is any evidence to support the claim that grammar schools help increase social mobility.

PaulW1965

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

i.e. if your disruptive pupil hates biology but loves plumbing, change the curriculum they follow to suit their interests and needs.

Errr when were you last in a state school??? They provide academic routes and vocational routes these days.

PaulW1965

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If you're not academic, fine, we should be providing opportunities for practical people. Electricians, plumbers, carpenters, welders, etc... it's not just academic potential that needs to be realised.

Allowing people to excel based on merit shouldn't be limited to just those who can do A Level further maths at age 11.

Which is what all state schools do these days. They provide for all. Where've you been?

PaulW1965

bobbymotors wrote: »

Oh no it's not you know. I have a child now in his 40s and grandchildren.

There are some very bad schools near where they live, and you do indeed see the stereotype of mothers in tracksuits smoking outside the school gates waiting with a bag of McD fries and a bag of sweets for their offspring. Sad but true, and not by any means all of them.

What sort of school did you send your kids to, that this is your children's local catchment school? So what did a Grammar School really do for you, if this is your children's life?

borntobefree

setmefree2 wrote: »

If Grammar schools start to flourish - so will private schools.

In Bucks we still have Grammars. Parents send their kids to private primary to ensure their children get into the grammar plus they have tutors to coach for the 11+.

It is not cheap.

TrickyTree83

setmefree2 wrote: »

Plenty of kids go to Oxbridge from state schools. (In fact the majority these days are from state schools) Why do they suddenly need to be housed in a separate school? Why are they so delicate?

It's not for the sake of it. It's because it's good for social cohesion for kids to mix with a wide range of folk.

You clearly have never been near a school in years. They are highly competitive places. From the moment your kid goes to the school the table the sit on denotes their ability. In High School kids are set in nearly everything. Mixed ability teaching is long gone.

I asked the question:

Why deny others the opportunity to excel outside of that rigid paradigm?

All you've said (in summation) is that the state schools as they currently are allow people to excel enough. And that social cohesion is as important. I just disagree with lumping everyone in together, people are not equal and those to can thrive should be allowed to do so. If that means not fitting into the mould of a top down state controlled model then I'm fine with that and I would actively encourage it, even if it meant my kids didn't get the chance. It's not right to deny others the opportunity to excel.

ukcarper

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I asked the question:

Why deny others the opportunity to excel outside of that rigid paradigm?

All you've said (in summation) is that the state schools as they currently are allow people to excel enough. And that social cohesion is as important. I just disagree with lumping everyone in together, people are not equal and those to can thrive should be allowed to do so. If that means not fitting into the mould of a top down state controlled model then I'm fine with that and I would actively encourage it, even if it meant my kids didn't get the chance. It's not right to deny others the opportunity to excel.

If a comp is streamed correctly it wouldn't deny anybody the opportunity to excell in fact it would help many. In the grammar school system those who don't go opportunity is controlled by thier weakest subject in a streamed school they can reach thier full potential in all subjects.

michaels

borntobefree wrote: »

In Bucks we still have Grammars. Parents send their kids to private primary to ensure their children get into the grammar plus they have tutors to coach for the 11+.

It is not cheap.

This - and the Tories also know what Grammar schools are about, the narrow interests of a few who find private school fees difficult but can afford the tuition and extra transport costs of selective schooling at the expense of the many who no one cares if they end up in sink schools and a loss of social cohesion for everyone.

I'm surprised Labour are not in favour, secondary moderns must help to keep many in a despond of low ambition ideal 'it is unfair' fodder.

BACKFRMTHEEDGE

We have grammars here on The Wirral. We went to visit a couple. We didn't like them at all. I don't think grammars are what most parents would want for their kids these days.