An Evening With... Jeremy Corbyn

Moby

From my experience middle class families are much better at pushing their kids forward, they see the value of education. Apparently private tuition has rocketed in London in recent years. Kids from disadvantaged backgrounds in comparison don't get the same encouragement from home. I see it every day in the families I work with. The whole value system is different....as a result the child grows up on a diet of fast food, Jeremy Kyle, financial insecurity and a single mother more interested in what's on her mobile phone than what's happening to Kyle in school. There are always successes in which disadvantaged kids use the grammar system to better themselves....but these examples are the exception rather than the rule. For the reasons given an education system based on early selection will always have this problem.

ruggedtoast

bobbymotors wrote: »

'However, I personally don't see why it is a problem. I was a child from working-class parents who went to a Grammar School.'

THIS ^^^^^^ all day long.

I am from a working class background...my mum and dad both worked in a butchers shop (AA Fisher in Slough)

They were not academically clever but knew the value of a £1 note and eventually we owned our own shop(s)

I talk like Mike Read (Frank in Eastenders) but went to a grammar school after passing the 11+

It was the best thing that ever happened to me, discipline and education. it's all you need.

The problem with comprehensives isn't the idea, it's the implementation. Just like all socialist ideas, everyone is deemed equal and mostly all get dragged down instead of the noble theory that everyone is pulled up.

Life isn't like that...if you work hard and work smart you can get on in life, if you don't then you won't.

Your knowledge of Comprehensive schools is decades out of date.

None of the countries that outperform us educationally and economically use a grammar school model. Nor has the UK recovered friom the awful state the Tories left state education in the 90s to the point it has by selective intake.

The Tories are doing what they always do in power. Slashing funding to public services until they are on their knees, then pointing out that they aren't very good before trying to privatise them to the detriment of all but the privileged few.

Your rosey recollection of grammar schools was followed by half a century of econimic privilege and government vote buying largesse.

No child entering secondary now has this future ahead of them and they really don't need educational policies that are designed to appeal to you.

seven-day-weekend

You would mix with other people in your daily life!

bobbymotors

'Your knowledge of Comprehensive schools is decades out of date. '

Oh no it's not you know. I have a child now in his 40s and grandchildren.

There are some very bad schools near where they live, and you do indeed see the stereotype of mothers in tracksuits smoking outside the school gates waiting with a bag of McD fries and a bag of sweets for their offspring. Sad but true, and not by any means all of them.

The clever, smart kids that go to these schools have got no chance in life...very little teaching and learning goes on. Instead of raising everyone to a better standard (mostly) they are ground down to a poorer standard.

It makes no difference anyway, the Tories will be in power for the foreseeable future. And good job too, as I cannot recall any Laqbour government, ever, that has left the country better off than whenever they came to power.

It's not austerity, it is living within your means, a lesson that the left will not listen to, cannot hear, and will never adopt.

It's the same as running your life, sure, I could live like a king for 5 years, get in debt, and then spend 20 years living in 'austerity' (ie within my means) in order to pay beck the debt.

setmefree2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The selection tests for grammars, for a while, were essentially IQ tests.

You mostly can't revise for these so some working class kids that were bright did get in, but there was apparently so much pressure from the middle classes to revert to standard entry examinations that could be practised, that they were dropped.

I have more than a few issues with using IQ tests, not least of all that the testers themselves aren't really sure what dimensions of intelligence they are actually testing.

It is though fairer than the middle class stitch up of yummy mummies suspending their yoga classes for a while and hiring a tutor to ensure Rupert and Camilla pass their 11 plus with flying colours.

Which is what May wants.

This two faced government cares nothing for social mobility, this is nothing other than a crass land grab to disempower the poor by segregating them into ghettos of underachievement.

Oh my days! Wonders will never cease. We have found something we agree on....grammar schools suck on so many levels.

Can't see this getting through the HoC and never through the HoL.

You have to wonder about May's sanity - not only does she have Brexit to execute, she has already chosen to continue fighting the medical establishment - and now she wants to take on the education establishment too. All on a majority of 12!

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/08/theresa-may-capable-dont-believe-it-troll-tweet-stunning-oversight-cruel-home-secretary
Is some of the shine starting to come off St Theresa??????????I know it's not stricly on topic but Corbyn is compared against how competent the tories are etc

Agree. Her nasty barbs at PMQs did her no credit and didn't work, she needs to drop them.

westernpromise

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The selection tests for grammars, for a while, were essentially IQ tests.

You mostly can't revise for these so some working class kids that were bright did get in, but there was apparently so much pressure from the middle classes to revert to standard entry examinations that could be practised, that they were dropped.

I have more than a few issues with using IQ tests, not least of all that the testers themselves aren't really sure what dimensions of intelligence they are actually testing.

It is though fairer than the middle class stitch up of yummy mummies suspending their yoga classes for a while and hiring a tutor to ensure Rupert and Camilla pass their 11 plus with flying colours.

Which is what May wants.

This two faced government cares nothing for social mobility, this is nothing other than a crass land grab to disempower the poor by segregating them into ghettos of underachievement.

That is the best way to boil them down into cheap petrol after first eating their babies, silly. Haven't you been paying attention to Comrade Khorbiyn?

setmefree2

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

So how about having Grammar Schools, with no entrance exam, but based upon the child's performance throughout their Primary School?

Then the top 10% would all have a chance at a Grammar, no matter what class they were or how much money they had.

However, I personally don't see why it is a problem. I was a child from working-class parents who went to a Grammar School. There were many girls there from a similar background to myself. Margaret Thatcher too came from quite humble beginnings and won a scholarship.

There is a Girls' Grammar School in my town which takes the top 100 of those who pass the exam. There is nothing to stop working-class parents entering their child for the exam, other than their own prejudices and aspirations. I personally know of several working-class girls who have gone there, one from a single-parent family on a sink estate.

Or we could just have no selection and those schools work just great too... come see how we do it in London....we have the best schools in the UK and we have no grammar schools....

michaels

setmefree2 wrote: »

Oh my days! Wonders will never cease. We have found something we agree on....grammar schools suck on so many levels.

Can't see this getting through the HoC and never through the HoL.

You have to wonder about May's sanity - not only does she have Brexit to execute, she has already chosen to continue fighting the medical establishment - and now she wants to take on the education establishment too. All on a majority of 12!

Hmm...scratches head....general election once 'Brexit' plans announced next spring.....

Can we yet start talking about 'stexit' - IE exit only in name with continuing single market, free movementish, ehcr, EU contributions (net so 'halved' to £150m per week) etc?

westernpromise

bobbymotors wrote: »

Just like all socialist ideas, everyone is deemed equal and mostly all get dragged down

Exactly correct. Nobody should be allowed to raise themselves beyond anyone else, and if they attempt it, they deserve nothing but the hatred of the state.