An Evening With... Jeremy Corbyn

TrickyTree83

michaels wrote: »

The geammar school announcement demonstrates why we need an effective opposition

You feel that grammar schools are a bad idea?

The current system favours those who can afford houses nearest the best schools. It's more loaded towards the haves than the have not's at the moment. Re-introducing the grammar school system at least allows poorer pupils who show aptitude for academia the opportunity to excel, rather than languish in a failing school because they live in a poor neighbourhood not of their choosing.

It would allow social mobility based on merit, the best form of selection criteria.

nordicsam

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

You feel that grammar schools are a bad idea?

The current system favours those who can afford houses nearest the best schools. It's more loaded towards the haves than the have not's at the moment. Re-introducing the grammar school system at least allows poorer pupils who show aptitude for academia the opportunity to excel, rather than languish in a failing school because they live in a poor neighbourhood not of their choosing.

It would allow social mobility based on merit, the best form of selection criteria.

But that's not what happens in places that still have grammar schools.

My town has two grammar schools but I don't know anybody who went to one, indeed I don't know anybody who even took the test to get in. Grammars just aren't on the radar of most working class families.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

nordicsam wrote: »

But that's not what happens in places that still have grammar schools.

My town has two grammar schools but I don't know anybody who went to one, indeed I don't know anybody who even took the test to get in. Grammars just aren't on the radar of most working class families.

Yes, the situation now is that grammar schools survive only in expensive leafy areas. Every town used to have one.

The problem in this country isn't poor schools; it's poor parents who don't value education. I honestly don't know what we can do about this.

CLAPTON

nordicsam wrote: »

But that's not what happens in places that still have grammar schools.

My town has two grammar schools but I don't know anybody who went to one, indeed I don't know anybody who even took the test to get in. Grammars just aren't on the radar of most working class families.

so whats happening there?

-the parents have no aspiration for their children to so to grammar school
-the teachers have no aspirations for the children in their care to go to grammar school?

ruggedtoast

The selection tests for grammars, for a while, were essentially IQ tests.

You mostly can't revise for these so some working class kids that were bright did get in, but there was apparently so much pressure from the middle classes to revert to standard entry examinations that could be practised, that they were dropped.

I have more than a few issues with using IQ tests, not least of all that the testers themselves aren't really sure what dimensions of intelligence they are actually testing.

It is though fairer than the middle class stitch up of yummy mummies suspending their yoga classes for a while and hiring a tutor to ensure Rupert and Camilla pass their 11 plus with flying colours.

Which is what May wants.

This two faced government cares nothing for social mobility, this is nothing other than a crass land grab to disempower the poor by segregating them into ghettos of underachievement.

seven-day-weekend

So how about having Grammar Schools, with no entrance exam, but based upon the child's performance throughout their Primary School?

Then the top 10% would all have a chance at a Grammar, no matter what class they were or how much money they had.

However, I personally don't see why it is a problem. I was a child from working-class parents who went to a Grammar School. There were many girls there from a similar background to myself. Margaret Thatcher too came from quite humble beginnings and won a scholarship.

There is a Girls' Grammar School in my town which takes the top 100 of those who pass the exam. There is nothing to stop working-class parents entering their child for the exam, other than their own prejudices and aspirations. I personally know of several working-class girls who have gone there, one from a single-parent family on a sink estate.

ruggedtoast

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

So how about having Grammar Schools, with no entrance exam, but based upon the child's performance throughout their Primary School?

Then the top 10% would all have a chance at a Grammar, no matter what class they were or how much money they had.

However, I personally don't see why it is a problem. I was a child from working-class parents who went to a Grammar School. There were many girls there from a similar background to myself. Margaret Thatcher too came from quite humble beginnings and won a scholarship.

There is a Girls' Grammar School in my town which takes the top 100 of those who pass the exam. There is nothing to stop working-class parents entering their child for the exam, other than their own prejudices and aspirations. I personally know of several working-class girls who have gone there, one from a single-parent family on a sink estate.

How about rather than segregating children into ghettos based on educational ideology from the 1920s. we just fund all schools properly, let them stream children according to their abilities, and let teachers get on with their jobs.

You know, like a normal country.

seven-day-weekend

ruggedtoast wrote: »

How about rather than segregating children into ghettos based on educational ideology from the 1920s. we just fund all schools properly, let them stream children according to their abilities, and let teachers get on with their jobs.

You know, like a normal country.

How about letting children get the education they need? I'm actually in favour of all kinds of schools, from academic for those that are that way inclined, to 'skills-based' schools for those that need that type of education, and everything in between; also for children to be able to move between schools if their needs become different over time.

One size does not fit all and should not be expected to.

michaels

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

How about letting children get the education they need? I'm actually in favour of all kinds of schools, from academic for those that are that way inclined, to 'skills-based' schools for those that need that type of education, and everything in between; also for children to be able to move between schools if their needs become different over time.

One size does not fit all and should not be expected to.

So you should only mix with people of the same IQ (or the same 'ability' to be coached to pass a test)? Can we also prevent our kids with having to mix with people of different races, religions, genders and sexual orientation please?!

One of the big problems with this country is we have a ruling class who have only mixed with 'people like us' in their private schools and this is just a sop to those who struggle with the fees but can afford some intensive tutoring.

I 100% agree with RuggedToast on this one hence my comment re political leadership - even David Cameron wasn't sinking to this petty Bourgeois level. If there was an effective centrist opposition the Tories would not dare do this. I wonder what other right wing wet dreams we may see enacted whilst the Tories think they are untouchable

bobbymotors

'However, I personally don't see why it is a problem. I was a child from working-class parents who went to a Grammar School.'

THIS ^^^^^^ all day long.

I am from a working class background...my mum and dad both worked in a butchers shop (AA Fisher in Slough)

They were not academically clever but knew the value of a £1 note and eventually we owned our own shop(s)

I talk like Mike Read (Frank in Eastenders) but went to a grammar school after passing the 11+

It was the best thing that ever happened to me, discipline and education. it's all you need.

The problem with comprehensives isn't the idea, it's the implementation. Just like all socialist ideas, everyone is deemed equal and mostly all get dragged down instead of the noble theory that everyone is pulled up.

Life isn't like that...if you work hard and work smart you can get on in life, if you don't then you won't.