An Evening With... Jeremy Corbyn

N1AK

bobbymotors wrote: »

There is no perfect system, but capitalism is the best one so far....socialism doesn't work, never has, never will.

Anyone though has the right to believe in socialism should they so wish. It is an inalienable right to do so. Their problem is that they cannot see its faults, and berate those who can, whereas capitalists usually can see the faults, and either fix them or go bankrupt.

Debating whether socialism works or not vs capitalism is usually a thankless venture. People's definitions of what socialism and capitalism mean can vary hugely and frankly I'm not persuaded there is a correct defined meaning to either at this time.

In the UK someone earning £50k pa pays ~65% of each additional £1 they earn in income tax and employer/employee national insurance. If they spend that on something for which VAT is charged then it increases to 72% taxation... where exactly is the line where tax in a capitalist society undermines "being the generation of profits for private individuals", and becomes "From each according to his ability"? Would we be capitalist if Income tax was 80% but not at 81%? Is France capitalist (on your list) because its government only spends 60% of GDP but would be socialist if it reached 65%?

TrickyTree83

On a completely different note - UB40 endorse Corbyn. Possibly advocating changing the national anthem to "Red Red Wine", Corbyn likes red after all?

Got my vote!

hahahaha

BobQ

westernpromise wrote: »

Now that's an interesting idea. So rather than having tax rates that apply simply to income perhaps they should be based on the virtues of the person earning that income?

So if someone is popular and worthwhile, such as a footballer, racing-pigeon breeder or angling supplies merchant, then at the 45% band he should pay only say 5%. But if he is an evil monster such as a banker, Tory or other affront, he should pay 150%.

So my hypothetical person on £330k a year would pay more tax on that than would, say, a doctor or a judge on the X Factor, because the latter are more virtuous.

Would that be an idea?

I can see the attractions of such a system in the few examples you give, but I doubt it would be fair or just and there would be a lot of debate on its implementation: marketing manager vs sex worker might be a tough call.:)

ruggedtoast

Fella wrote: »

This line is repeated often & yet by far the majority of headlines I see (for example on Google News or Facebook) tend to come from the Mirror or the Guardian, both of whom love an attention-grabbing headline that portrays some tory or other as evil etc. Closely followed by the Huffington Post & The Independent, both of whom are left of centre.

Then of course there is the BBC. People can & will argue all day long whether they are biased to the left but there's no argument as far as I'm concerned. Their very existence (the licence fee) is predicated on enforced socialism. Not to mention for example, that their Economics Editor who reported daily throughout the economic crisis was Robert Peston, son of a Labour Peer. He was closely followed by Stephanie Flanders, erstwhile girlfriend of David Miliband. So no Labour bias there then.

It's a fallacy to pretend that the Media all support the Tories & that Labour are at a disadvantage because of it.

The Huffington Post and the Mirror are left of centre in the same way that Owen Smith and his Blairite buddies are left of centre.

You have to move the centre pretty far to the Right for them to be to its Left. Which is effectively what has happened.

A great many people who actually are Left leaning politically don't recognise these groups as being left of anything, and are no longer prepared to pipe down and be derided as lunatic Maoists because they think funding nursing courses is more important than sailing stupid nuclear submarines around and providing tax loopholes for bankers who are insanely wealthy from selling us our own currency then parking their profits in the Cayman Islands.

Equals Corbynism, end of thread.

I thank you.

CLAPTON

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The Huffington Post and the Mirror are left of centre in the same way that Owen Smith and his Blairite buddies are left of centre.

You have to move the centre pretty far to the Right for them to be to its Left. Which is effectively what has happened.

A great many people who actually are Left leaning politically don't recognise these groups as being left of anything, and are no longer prepared to pipe down and be derided as lunatic Maoists because they think funding nursing courses is more important than sailing stupid nuclear submarines around and providing tax loopholes for bankers who are insanely wealthy from selling us our own currency then parking their profits in the Cayman Islands.

Equals Corbynism, end of thread.

I thank you.

do you have any positive beliefs that would actually help real people

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The Huffington Post and the Mirror are left of centre in the same way that Owen Smith and his Blairite buddies are left of centre.

You have to move the centre pretty far to the Right for them to be to its Left. Which is effectively what has happened.

A great many people who actually are Left leaning politically don't recognise these groups as being left of anything, and are no longer prepared to pipe down and be derided as lunatic Maoists because they think funding nursing courses is more important than sailing stupid nuclear submarines around and providing tax loopholes for bankers who are insanely wealthy from selling us our own currency then parking their profits in the Cayman Islands.

Equals Corbynism, end of thread.

I thank you.

The funding changes to nursing bursaries is sensible.

My sister (newly qualified, going into ICU in November) told me many people go on to these course, obtain the bursaries, then quit when they realise it's not for them. And that's wasted taxpayer cash never to be seen again. That money could be better spent on higher wages for NHS staff or on improving services.

The bursaries were also finite, meaning you could only take on a particular number of nursing students. When you need more nurses than you can train because the pipeline is constrained by budgets in the form of the bursaries it makes sense to remove that barrier.

All of this is from the horses mouth of a student who has recently been through the entire process.

Do you have anything to contradict this?

Fella

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The Huffington Post and the Mirror are left of centre in the same way that Owen Smith and his Blairite buddies are left of centre.

You have to move the centre pretty far to the Right for them to be to its Left. Which is effectively what has happened.

If you actually don't think the Mirror is left of centre then I'm actually starting to think you've had some kind of a breakdown.

Moby

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/08/theresa-may-capable-dont-believe-it-troll-tweet-stunning-oversight-cruel-home-secretary
Is some of the shine starting to come off St Theresa??????????I know it's not stricly on topic but Corbyn is compared against how competent the tories are etc

ruggedtoast

Moby wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/08/theresa-may-capable-dont-believe-it-troll-tweet-stunning-oversight-cruel-home-secretary
Is some of the shine starting to come off St Theresa??????????I know it's not stricly on topic but Corbyn is compared against how competent the tories are etc

She has a pretty limited range as a speaker and obviously is trying to capitalise on her early Maggie joke.

I imagine this will be the end of her comedy routines and she can now concentrate on punishing the poor.

Utilising all three of her two faces.

michaels

The grammar school announcement demonstrates why we need an effective opposition