An Evening With... Jeremy Corbyn

ukcarper

Conrad wrote: »

Earnings reality check.


Just had a typical enquiry;
Italian British lad employed running a chip shop for another Italian British bloke.


Takes home £1100 per week, but payslips show 3 times less.
His outgoings are £5500 pm and he easily cover them.


So if he were taxed properly his gross earnings would be about £90k pa.


Official stats have him earning less than £40k.


This is why I could never be a lefty - the reality is so different to the picture painted by naïve Corbyn types.

If you dodge tax I think it's a cheek that you expect your mortgage to be based on your undisclosed income. Do you not realise how much it annoys the general public in PAYE who pay all their tax.

Moby

bugslet wrote: »

If only all boomers fitted into your neat little concepts.
I've avoided invective and nastiness, you might like to try and polish up your own tawdry responses.

Just responding in kind....read back and you'll see a torrent of invective against Corbyn and his ilk. No attempt to understand or debate sensibly.....it's all very tit for tat stuff.....designed to 'protect what i've got and what i've worked for all my life. You know....the usual stuff.
Point taken ....that everyone is different and there are decent people in the world I'm sure......but put it this way....the only place I meet such right wing, xenophobic, morally superior types, who are happy to judge the 'benefit scroungers' and who want us to know that they have worked so hard all their lives to set up their business blah blah is either on here or if I'm sitting in the back of a cab. Anonymity on a forum does bring out the worst of our natures perhaps

bugslet

I don't like invective either way Moby. I try to be civilised:). The only place I meet such left wing, flakey, morally superior types, who are happy to judge people that have worked seriously hard for the little bit they have is on here:p:D.

cells

Thrugelmir wrote: »

What's the turnover of the business? My chippy makes a good living by doing everything using family. No way could he gross £90k per annum.

What Conrad probably does not realize is that people likely also lie to him. Most the people who go to a mortgage broker (rather than a bank directly) are probably in some non standard situation be it the grey market or something else. They probably do earn more than they say on their taxes but maybe they earn less than they tell Conrad in the hope that if they hype their earnings Conrad might approve a loan for them.

Actually there may be some self selection so what he observes might be correct. That is to say if 90% earn modest incomes they dont go to Conrad to get a big mortgage as they cant afford it. The 10% that do earn good incomes go to Conrad in the hope he can get them a loan. This might give conrad the idea that all of them are big earners due to the self selection.

I only know of one person who runs my old local food outlet and he is not well off (or even poor) its easily evident. Im fairly sure he pays no taxes as he doesn't sound like he is the type to know what self assessment tax is let alone actually file for it. Sometimes I think if he was closed down it would be for the good at other times I think what harm is he doing. Last I heard he got cancer and the shop has been empty for quite some time

cells

Conrad wrote: »

Plus child benefit x 2.


Point is this is what I've seen in the flesh for 25 years - people in Accountancy and some financial services sectors see this reality.


So when I then see lovely middle class compassion warriors that resemble Harry Potter fresh out of Uni standing on Corbyns stage bleating on about the supposed lack of earnings, based on wholly unreliable official figures, I just see staggering naivety


Effectively these compassion apostles speak on behalf of supposed 'poor' people that are making far more money than they.


Millions of non status and self cert mortgages were bought by people with hidden earnings which ought to tell academics and experts that there's far more to earnings than meets the eye

these people are not as stupid as you think they are, they know about the existence of the black and grey markets and they do try to quantify its size and scope. It is estimated at about 10% of the economy some £150 billion a year

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/black-market-iea-shadow-economy-tax-474326


Also interestingly it shows that the UK black market is about half the size of Greece or Italy. Maybe this is why unemployment in those places look a lot higher as many more are in the black market there than here?

Moby

Conrad wrote: »

Earnings reality check.


Just had a typical enquiry;
Italian British lad employed running a chip shop for another Italian British bloke.


Takes home £1100 per week, but payslips show 3 times less.
His outgoings are £5500 pm and he easily cover them.


So if he were taxed properly his gross earnings would be about £90k pa.


Official stats have him earning less than £40k.


This is why I could never be a lefty - the reality is so different to the picture painted by naïve Corbyn types.

Surely taxing people on their real earnings is what the Corbyn types want isn't it.? I've said many times there is a huge black economy in which small business types pay what they choose to declare and keep back the rest. Mini Trump types they are.....judge others as 'benefit scroungers' and pay as little tax as they can get away with. Cash in hand mate;)

The point people on this thread fail to see.....is 'socialism' is not just about winning elections....it's about shifting attitudes so that what was acceptable in the past becomes unacceptable in the future. Attitudes re. racism, feminism, bigotry against gay people, bullying at work, working conditions etc are changed by social movements and attitudes. Socialism is at the forefront of that. Best example is post WW2........Churchill was the hero who beat Hitler and thought we'd be grateful and re-elect him. He failed to see that returning troops and their families and women who worked in the munition factories etc.....wanted pensions, a proper home, a proper healthcare system......'cradle to grave' etc. Such changes only happen because people fight for them against those who try to conserve the status quo. That is socialism folks.....the things you now take for granted had to be fought for against the privileged 'haves'. The fact that we have universal suffrage had to be fought for; the fact that women have the vote had to be fought for; the right of workers to be represented by unions had to be fought for. Too many people have become complacent and take these things for granted and think we now live in an equal society which has equality of opportunity....so 'socialism' can be seen as an anachronism......but that is so so complacent and narrowly selfish .....people because they are people will always try to take advantage of others....its the way we are.....'socialism' is there to provide a social means to challenge this....the battle goes on!

I've said many times I think Corbyn's an idiot....but that's because I don't happen to think he's very able....it doesn't mean socialism itself is wrong though!
Narrow party politics and the fact that labour is unelectable and it's so funny etc yah booh.....is just part of the picture. That's just soap opera stuff. Corbyn has changed things because he's re-framed the debate and people are talking about thngs that haven't been talked about in that way for a long time? The tories are in power but what does that mean and which tories and how can pressure be placed on them to shift their views, change policies etc. See how Labour challenged the benefit cuts; see how UKIP put pressure on Cameron to have a referendum he didn't want. There is always a left of centre narrative and always will be........challenging the privileged interests and the 'haves' is not going to go away! For instance....... the current state of the NHS is an absolute scandal......haven't people seen how it's deteriorated over the last few years!...........Mental health services similar. From my own work I can see how conditions in prisons have deteriorated. People are dying and other people are complacent.....socialism is there to get in yer face and challenge complacency!

MataNui

"Surely taxing people on their real earnings is what the Corbyn types want isn't it.?"

Nope. They want to tax wealth. So you work hard, save, buy a house, pay your taxes then Corbyn wants to make you pay more tax on the value of the house (that you are still actually paying for) and the savings in your bank and i am sure a fair few of his followers would have you paying tax on that nice German car and god forbid if you have a boat or something like that.

May as well live in a council bedsit and spend all your cash on drugs, alcohol and hookers then let the state look after you in your old age.

God there is even more crap:
"The point people on this thread fail to see.....is 'socialism' is not just about winning elections....it's about shifting attitudes so that what was acceptable in the past becomes unacceptable in the future. Attitudes re. racism, feminism, bigotry against gay people, bullying at work, working conditions etc are changed by social movements and attitudes. Socialism is at the forefront of that."

Socialism (at least as far as Labour is concerned) is entirely about bigotry and racism all hidden behind positive discrimination and and the odd gobby mouthpiece who just happens to be black and female.Socialism doesnt work, Its never worked. Ever. Anywhere.

Moby

MataNui wrote: »

"Surely taxing people on their real earnings is what the Corbyn types want isn't it.?"

Nope. They want to tax wealth. So you work hard, save, buy a house, pay your taxes then Corbyn wants to make you pay more tax on the value of the house (that you are still actually paying for) and the savings in your bank and i am sure a fair few of his followers would have you paying tax on that nice German car and god forbid if you have a boat or something like that.

May as well live in a council bedsit and spend all your cash on drugs, alcohol and hookers then let the state look after you in your old age.

God there is even more crap:
"The point people on this thread fail to see.....is 'socialism' is not just about winning elections....it's about shifting attitudes so that what was acceptable in the past becomes unacceptable in the future. Attitudes re. racism, feminism, bigotry against gay people, bullying at work, working conditions etc are changed by social movements and attitudes. Socialism is at the forefront of that."

Socialism (at least as far as Labour is concerned) is entirely about bigotry and racism all hidden behind positive discrimination and and the odd gobby mouthpiece who just happens to be black and female.Socialism doesnt work, Its never worked. Ever. Anywhere.

Ah well I tried......it's contributions like this that make me realise 'socialism' is as relevant today as it was yesterday;)
In response to your crap I'll say...... I work hard, have bought a house, pay my taxes blah blah. I don't have a problem with it though because I believe in living in a civilised place in which I can sleep at night without a gun under my bed. Taxing wealth is the price we pay.

I also don't like Diane Abbot but I'm not so stupid and narrow minded to diss a political value because of one persons character!

mrginge

Moby wrote: »

The point people on this thread fail to see.....is 'socialism' is not just about winning elections....it's about shifting attitudes so that what was acceptable in the past becomes unacceptable in the future. Attitudes re. racism, feminism, bigotry against gay people, bullying at work, working conditions etc are changed by social movements and attitudes.
Socialism is at the forefront of that.

It is incredible that all the advancements made in the areas you list have, over the last thirty or forty years been achieved with not one single socialist government.
When I look at the Britain of the 1970s compared to today the transformation in social attitudes is remarkable. Obviously we still have a fair way to go so let's not think its job done.

I can only conclude that socialism has given this country !!!! all.

Moby

mrginge wrote: »

It is incredible that all the advancements made in the areas you list have, over the last thirty or forty years been achieved with not one single socialist government.
When I look at the Britain of the 1970s compared to today the transformation in social attitudes is remarkable. Obviously we still have a fair way to go so let's not think its job done.

I can only conclude that socialism has given this country !!!! all.

and I can only conclude that yet again.....you selectively choose a point to have a pop. Typical! I don't know how many times, in how many different ways I can say this....socialism isn't a govmt it is a political idea. That's my point! There are socialist ideas/attitudes in life which put pressure on govmts of all types.