2.2 milion (so far) sign petition calling for 2nd EU referendum.

chewmylegoff

the_flying_pig wrote: »

I don't think this is a great petition. The aspect of the vote that is being criticised is a rule that was agreed in advance, i.e. winner takes all, no matter what the majority or turnout. That was imo an abysmally bad rule to have for a decision of this magnitude, but challenging it *after* the vote seems highly problematic. I'd say similiar things about not letting 16-17 year olds to vote - absolutely crazy, but again hard to challenge after the event.

To my mind the most promising grounds for challenge would be that central planks of the exit campaign were, objectively, falsehoods, not spin but rather outright !!!!!!!!; and that the exit side weren't honest about their lack of anything resembling a plan, even very broad-brush principles of a plan. Voters deserved, arguably needed, to know these things. But it's quite hard to pin these sorts of issues down, this wasn't like a general election with a written manifesto and an accountable party leader - it was rather a loose gaggle of chancers spewing out any old !!!!!!!! that they thought might win a vote here and there. And of course the vote itself doesn't legally bind anyone.

I still can't get over what hannan was saying on newsnight last night, to be so candid so soon after the vote was astonishing. I thought they might at least go through the motions of promising the world initially and then blaming someone else (someone foreign, obviously) when it turned out not to be possible.

I really, really don't know what'll happen. I'm very moderately hopeful that we'll be able to retain some of the benefits of membership, by whatever means. Overall we're sure to end up, at best, a little worse off, the remaining members simply have to make sure this happens otherwise other countries will follow suit, it'd be suicide to give us anything other than a raw deal, even to the point of (in a static sense, i.e. ignoring the deterrent effect on other would-be waiters) cutting off noses to spite faces.

Interesting times, as they say. I can't begin to imagine where we'll come out.

The best bet for "remain" appears to me to be to force a general election and to campaign in that election on a remain platform. That would seem to me to require the pro-EU elements of the parliamentary Labour and Conservative Parties to join forces with the Lib Dems and SNP in order to successfully bring a motion to dissolve parliament and then to fight an election on a common platform and to win more than 50% of the vote in the process (or run a second referendum after winning a working majority).

That seems pretty unlikely to me but then so does the UK voting for Brexit....

ess0two

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Good god that petition is going up by 2000 signatures A MINUTE.

All in vain.....

Maddermanblue1

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Good god that petition is going up by 2000 signatures A MINUTE.

No matter how many signatures it gets it still won't work.

"Captain, sir please let it be known I am carrying out your order under protest".

"It's duly noted soldier, carry out your orders".

chewmylegoff

ess0two wrote: »

All in vain.....

If 18 million people sign it I suppose it might make some sort of difference.

mrginge

Should'a would'a, could'a

Time to stop with the whining, accept that you live in a democracy where everyone's vote is equal (whether young, old, rich, poor, clever or stupid)
And crack on with shaping the future.

globalds

chewmylegoff wrote: »

If 18 million people sign it I suppose it might make some sort of difference.

No it won't

the_flying_pig

chewmylegoff wrote: »

The best bet for "remain" appears to me to be to force a general election and to campaign in that election on a remain platform. That would seem to me to require the pro-EU elements of the parliamentary Labour and Conservative Parties to join forces with the Lib Dems and SNP in order to successfully bring a motion to dissolve parliament and then to fight an election on a common platform and to win more than 50% of the vote in the process (or run a second referendum after winning a working majority).

That seems pretty unlikely to me but then so does the UK voting for Brexit....

Yeah, I dunno.

Sturgeon has got a head of state's profile and salary in her sights now, just like Boris I'm sure she cares far more about that than any policy issue.

Corbyn has the support of Labour's membership (if not his MPs) and is not exactly a vote magnet.

I can't see the Tories splitting really. its members are staunchly pro brexit. MPs mostly pro remain. Voters narrowly pro exit.

What a mess.

the_flying_pig

globalds wrote: »

No it won't

It really might.

a PM who did anything other than tread very carefully with that level of voter dissent knocking around, with a large cross-party majority of MPs favoring remain, and the central planks of the exit campaign having been so quickly freely confessed, from the very top, to be a nonsense, would be in a highly precarious position.

dekaspace

If remain won, and people wanted a second referendum would it be even thought about or seen as sore losers? Whats different about this.

chewmylegoff

globalds wrote: »

No it won't

We'll see - the outcome is not certain yet. The result is not legally binding and if public opinion overwhelmingly shifts against Brexit there are still opportunities to row back especially given that a significant majority of MPs declared for remain. I expect there will be some new opinion polls soon; that may tell us whether there is noisy sour grapes or whether there really is an underlying about turn in the electorate.