Deutsche Bank toxic derivative losses

AG47

This is the largest financial story in the world right now, yet it's covered up.

Why is the crime in progress silver manipulation still happening when DB are actually paying criminal fines and laying off tens of thousands of staff over it?

cogito

AG47 wrote: »

DB are now getting criminal fine for the silver manipulation, it's not going to be $14 Bilion like the other criminal fines.

But the most amazing thing is they said they will grass on some other criminals to get smaller fines, shows how spdesperate they are, also shows the criminal silver manipulation should be coming to an rend soon.

As I understand it, this was not a fine but settlement of a lawsuit. The amount of the settlement is relatively small at $38m but it opens the floodgates to many other lawsuits. The consequences could be huge.

Thrugelmir

AG47 wrote: »

The value of the shares will fall through the floor even more.

So what. Company share prices continually move. no relevance to the solvency of the business. Like RBS going to take decades to return to ground zero. These are large complex operations where restructuring isn't a two minute job.

AG47

cogito wrote: »

As I understand it, this was not a fine but settlement of a lawsuit. The amount of the settlement is relatively small at $38m but it opens the floodgates to many other lawsuits. The consequences could be huge.

Yes you are right,

And the crime is still in progress

padington

AG47 wrote: »

Yes you are right,

And the crime is still in progress

Interesting to see that the posters that believed silver manipulation was evident have been proved right.

*adjusts halo*

AG47

padington wrote: »

Interesting to see that the posters that believed silver manipulation was evident have been proved right.

*adjusts halo*

Very interesting indeed. And it's still in progress, DB go off light because they came clean about the crime and grassed on the other criminals.

AG47

DB have now made redundant a third of their work force, and still laying off staff. It will soon be half lost their jobs and buildings being sold. But the debts are still in the trillions, there is no way on earth they can even pay one trillion of it.

The ratings agencies still have not downgraded, and the financial press is not all over this story?????????

pop_gun

AG47 wrote: »

This is the largest financial story in the world right now, yet it's covered up.

Why is the crime in progress silver manipulation still happening when DB are actually paying criminal fines and laying off tens of thousands of staff over it?

There was a time not so long ago, where precious metal price manipulation was considered a conspiracy theory.

Strange, how it's a fact now.

cogito

AG47 wrote: »

DB have now made redundant a third of their work force, and still laying off staff. It will soon be half lost their jobs and buildings being sold. But the debts are still in the trillions, there is no way on earth they can even pay one trillion of it.

The ratings agencies still have not downgraded, and the financial press is not all over this story?????????

DBs problems are massive but I think that you are confusing the notional value of the derivatives with the potential exposure. This article from WSJ casts light into dark corners.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/does-deutsche-bank-have-a-47-trillion-derivatives-problem-1475689629

AG47

CFTC Silent on their Investigation Findings after Silver Rigging Admission

Somebody got it wrong. Very wrong. The Silver market has been proven to be rigged all along and the regulators that had tens of thousands of complaints about silver manipulation turned a blind eye.

With the Deutsche Bank admission that they DID rig the silver prices lower, all our hard work at exposing these crimes is paying off...

Deutsche Bank to pay $38 million in U.S. silver price-fixing case
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-deutsche-bank-settlement-silver-idUSKBN12H2HB

Deutsche Bank AG (DBKGn.DE) has agreed to pay $38 million to settle U.S. litigation over allegations it illegally conspired with other banks to fix silver prices at the expense of investors, according to court papers filed on Monday.

The settlement, disclosed in papers filed in Manhattan federal court, came in one of many recent lawsuits in which investors have accused banks of conspiring to rig rates and prices in financial and commodities markets.

The settlement had been expected since April, though terms had yet to be disclosed. In court papers, lawyers for the investors say the deal will likely be an "ice breaker" that will serve as a catalyst for other banks to settle.

Vincent Briganti, a lawyer for the investors, said the deal provides "substantial monetary compensation plus cooperation from Deutsche Bank in the continued prosecution of this important case against the non-settling defendants."

The settlement is subject to court approval. A spokeswoman for the German bank declined to comment.

In the litigation, investors claimed Deutsche Bank, HSBC Holdings Plc (HSBA.L) and Bank of Nova Scotia (BNS.TO) (ScotiaBank) rigged silver prices through a secret daily meeting called the Silver Fix, and accused UBS AG (UBSG.S) of exploiting that fix.

The alleged conspiracy started by 1999, suppressed prices on roughly $30 billion of silver and silver financial instruments traded each year, and enabled the banks to pocket returns that could top 100 percent annualized, the investors said.

End

So there it is. My "Tin Foil Hat" that I have been wearing for 16 years can now finally come off my head. Maybe I can reshape it as a Dunce Cap for people like Jeffrey Christian who has Talked Smack to me and my friends at GATA for over a decade. Still no word from Jeff on the settlement but I'm sure he will try to spin it as a "one off" occurrence that had no effect on the overall market. Ha!

Our friend Turd Ferguson sent our an excellent post about what he expects to happen in the weeks and months following this settlement...

http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/7927/importance-deutsche-bank-silver-fix-lawsuit-settlement

The Importance of The Deutsche Bank Silver Fix Lawsuit Settlement
By Turd Ferguson | Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 10:10 am

This post is intended to remind you that this case is not about the present and it's not about the $38MM dollars. Instead, the true significance of this lawsuit will be on display over the coming months and years as innumerable new class action lawsuits are filed against The Bullion Banks for their collective role in rigging and manipulating the precious metals markets.

First, some links. Here's the news item from yesterday released by Reuters and a comprehensive write-up from Zerohedge:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-deutsche-bank-settlement-silver-idUSKBN12H2HB
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-17/deutsche-bank-pays-38-million-settle-silver-manipulation-lawsuit

And here are two links from back in April to remind you of the case:

http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/7563/deutschebank-settles-silver-lawsuit
http://thedailycoin.org/2016/04/21/craig-hemke-silver-gold-db-turns-states-evidence-the-flood-gates-are-now-open/

The typical internet reaction I've seen thus far is this:

A) This is only $38MM. Where's my money? I've lost a lot of money due to the metals being manipulated but I won't get any of this settlement and, because the dollar amount is so small, neither will anyone else.

This is just another slap on the wrist. A paltry $38MM is a drop in the bucket for Deutschebank and they'll now skate along with the rest of The Banks.

C) All of the manipulation conspiracy whackos are dead wrong. This case was just a nuisance and Deutschebank only agreed to settle so that the whole thing would just go away. Big corporations do this all the time so move along now. There's nothing to see here.

AND I'M HERE TO TELL YOU THAT ALL THREE OF THOSE OPINIONS ARE DEAD WRONG.

The impact and future effects of this case are significant and real. Yes, $38MM is not a lot of money and the settlement will only be disbursed to those few who had participated in the class action. But go back up this page and listen to the interview that I did with The Daily Coin. This is the first time that a settlement has been reached in a precious metals price rigging lawsuit. It's also the first time that a Bank has agreed to turn state's evidence against the other Banks that rig the process. The two items ensure that the case against both HSBS and Scotia is being built and that they will soon be forced to settle, too. Already, a NY judge has allowed the case to proceed into legal discovery (subpoenas, depositions, documents, etc) for the first time ever.

But the real story will be what comes next...A virtual avalanche of similar class action lawsuits, each alleging price manipulation and multi-million dollar plaintiff losses. Now that DB is "singing" and legal discovery is proceeding in this single case, the floodgates are truly open.

So think of this from the point of view of a Bullion Bank. Not only are you getting squeezed by tight margins and limited physical supply in London, you're also deeply underwater on most of the Comex futures positions that you've shorted in New York. And now this...An almost endless stream of future lawsuits from investors around the world whom you've cheated and defrauded over the past 20 years! What do you think these Banks are going to do in response? Many to most of them will just simply exit the bullion banking business! Can you even comprehend the monumental change this would represent?

Of course this is not going to happen over the next few days or weeks. Instead, a process like this will take months to play out which is WHY we felt the need for this post and reminder. Do not get caught up in the headline of just this one settlement and do not allow some Cartel shill to persuade you that this whole thing is meaningless.

I can assure you that, in the future, when we look back on the rubble of what was "bullion banking", the date of April 13, 2016 will live in infamy. That was the day that the settlement was first announced and it was the day that The Bullion Banks' entire house of cards began to crumble under the weight of accumulated fraud, deceit and lies.

Hang in there, my friend. We are winning.

TF

END

Will it all go down like that? I doubt it. After all, the settlement made sure that the lawsuit never got to the Discovery Phase where the REAL DIRT lies.

I'd like to remind everyone that we still haven't heard from the CFTC that held 3 "serious" investigations over the time frame that DB admits to rigging the silver market. All three of the investigations came away with NO CHARGES and not even a hit of what was really going on. Still not sure why the CFTC is not having to testify in front of Congress about this. Well, maybe I am sure as THEIR JOB IS TO RUN COVER FOR THE RIGGING OF THE SILVER MARKET!!

Here's an oldie but goodie from Roota...

CFTC: Six Strikes and You're Out!
http://www.roadtoroota.com/public/138.cfm

By the way, the silver rigging is still in full display today. Will we ever get a free market in silver?

Yes, but only after the crash of the system and the slate is wiped clean of all the fraud