Deutsche Bank toxic derivative losses

Sapphire

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Going to cut over 10,000 jobs. Trouble is in Germany takes 24-30 months to effect such changes.

Haven't the Qataris also just said they are not going to buy bonds from DM, or reneged on a deal to do so, or something? I heard something to that effect secondhand…

Thrugelmir

Sapphire wrote: »

Haven't the Qataris also just said they are not going to buy bonds from DM, or reneged on a deal to do so, or something? I heard something to that effect secondhand…

Long term investing

Qatari investors who own the largest stake in Deutsche Bank do not plan to sell their shares and could consider buying more if the embattled German bank decides to raise capital, sources familiar with Qatari investment policy told Reuters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-deutsche-bank-qatar-idUSKCN127111

Sapphire

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Long term investing

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-deutsche-bank-qatar-idUSKCN127111

I know that it's the Express, but quite often what is written there is later reflected in other sources:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/721289/Doom-for-Deutsche-Bank-as-largest-lender-Qatar-pulls-plug-on-future-equity

Moby_Tide

I see RBS went bust this afternoon due to toxic derivatives. They had the telltale technical glitch

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37658559

Conrad

Wow is it WW3?

I was just surfing the TV and each of the three channels I happened to hit upon were all simultaneously discussing potential war with Russia. Scary, o e even was in about the Russian fleet comming up the channel

Makes Brexit discussion seem petty

cogito

According to Die Welt, the US will demand that DB Curtail their activities there in return for a reduction in the fine.

There are also rumours that the Qataris are to withdraw their deposits on Monday. Seems unlikely that this would get out into the public domain but who knows?

Thrugelmir

Sapphire wrote: »

I know that it's the Express, but quite often what is written there is later reflected in other sources:

DB enters its earnings blackout period on October 27th. Still needs to raise further capital (an objective set some time ago) this year. So investors may well demand a premium due to the poor trading outlook for the bank. Qatar screwed Barclays well and truly after the GFC.

AG47

Conrad wrote: »

Maybe, but the 2008 crash tells us we should not necessarily ignore those lone voices warning us Banks are about to go pop. Did you see the film The Big Short? Handful of traders totally out on a limb as everyone else thought the likes of Bear Stearns just couldn't fail.

The big short is brilliant.

After that film, I think the public will not stand for another bail out of the banks. Instead the people will want to put all the bankers in jail.

theEnd

AG47 wrote: »

The big short is brilliant.

After that film, I think the public will not stand for another bail out of the banks. Instead the people will want to put all the bankers in jail.

I don't think this is anything like 2008.

Back then, the banks had spent years misrepresenting and mis-pricing a number of asset classes. They were also fighting for market share and trying to look as big as possible.

When things started going wrong, most banks didn't even know what they had themselves, let alone what the whole industry had and where the contagion would end.

It's so different now. Banks have been hugely reducing balance sheets and exposures. Everything is centrally recorded and even independently priced.

DB are clearly in trouble and have been poorly managed for years, but I'm yet to see any real immediate problems. There doesn't even seem to have been a run on them and given the rumours, this is the least I'd expect.

There's no industry wide problems, so they'll easily be able to sell assets if/when they struggle to raise capital.

I see a long, slow death for DB. They'll drop a lot more staff then already planned. Eventually get merged into someone else when they're so small no-one will care.

pop_gun

AG47 wrote: »

The ratings agencies still haven't downgraded DB!,,,,

They have now lost any credibility they have left, and they will now be accountable when the big collapse of DB can't be postponed any more.

The rating agencies aren't worth jack chit. These are same jokers who gave sub prime mortgages a triple A rating, right up til the moment it collapsed and became worthless.

The rating agencies have no credibility to lose.